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…. gomez and scotland bob explains in the interview that they have been thrown in at the deep end because of the rubbish that spudhead left us with
One thing that puzzles me… if he hadn’t planned to play Scotland from the word go, what were our striking options supposed to be at the start of this season? Rodallega and King? If so, that is almost worse judgement than thinking Scotland is going to be a top premier league stiker in the first place.[/quote]
That is exactly what I thought when i read Bobby’s comments from the interview last week.
I’ve commented on it elsewhere but its one of the things from that interview that confirm my suspicions about him being out of his depth coz either explanation for that comment i.e. making it up about wanting to ease him in or being happy to have a strikeforce of Rodallega & King show really bad errors of judgementJust in response to the responses to my posts can I just say that at no point did i intend to have a go at the interview technique or questions put to Bobby.
Actually i don’t think I have (without reading my posts again) but if it came over that way then it wasn’t meant toMy gripes, if you can call em that, are a) with the Bobby’s responses/statements/answers some of which quite frankly come across as confirming my own personal view that he is out of his depth in the top flight at this point in his career & b) with the impression that I got (& not saying that’s the way it is – just that’s the way I read it) that the interview has been presented to us as “Well Bobby said it, so therefore its true”
I didn’t expect those putting the questions to him to tear him to shreds or pick apart his answers at the interview but I get the impression, and someone who was there seemed to hint at it in a comment they made, that because its hoped these become a monthly thing no-one wanted to do anything that might get on his goat
To be honest this feeling is strengthened again by the latest lead feature from, I assume, JayT about the booing.
I completely agree with the general point of the article that it doesn’t help during matches but then there is another “Bobby said” moment with this comment:
“As Bobby said, we are one result away from having a great team; it needs that result to let them kick on and get a string of results together”
If anyone truly believes that then, IMO, they are completely deluded. We look awful & it looks worse game by game at the moment. We’ve also had this comment before every victory this season & after its been a case of “its come together now” & then we get another string of sub-standard performances
But I guess Bobby said it so it must be true ;)I appreciate all that but it was the umpteenth time that I’ve heard a defender/believer in Bobby use the “Paul Jewell 1st season” comparison & state that we were gash in his first season
I was just pointing out that we weren’tOn top of the points you add about the difference in transfer budget you can also add that, at the time, Jewell wasn’t restricted by the transfer windows & was able to bring in the likes of Filan & Jackson amongst others outside of June, July, August & January
“some people on here still demand that we should be in mid-table” – I don’t but I do expect a manager to be able to learn from his mistakes & be able to try & put right what is going wrong. I’ve not seen much evidence from Bobby on that score
“You could also see we were improving as the season went on
Can anybody really say that at the moment considering our record since the end of November?” – Whilst not comparing the 2 in any other way I stand by this comparison. at the very least we should have expected to see some improvement this season but results wise we’re getting worse & performance wise (IMO) we’re getting worse as the season goes on.Maybe so, but they can win
IMO it would have been far better to say somet along the lines of “Scotland & Gomez haven’t adapted as quickly as I would have liked but it was never going to be easy making the step up. I’ve seen enough recently, both in training & during games to convince me that they are now starting to get to grips with the increased demands at this level & believe they will both come into their own between now & the end of the season”
Its just my opinion, but by saying what he did he’s either forgotten what he said when they signed or he’s lying & he hopes people won’t rememberBoth this interview & the fans forum have been reported by those there as “well he said it so it must be true” but when you really look at what he’s said it doesn’t amount to much
Its not a criticism of the way whoever wrote this or the one from earlier in the season has done it. People who were at the fans forum did exactly the same thing on the messageboard & I’ve been at fans forums & found myself applauding & chanting Whelan’s name with everyone else when he’s come out wi somet that contradicts somet he’s said months or even minutes before
Its also easy for those who weren’t there to say “you should have asked him this?” or “why didn’t you pull him up on that?”Can I just say first that Bobby is to be congratulated for doing this interview. I don’t you’ll find many top flight managers that grounded & eager to appear to the fans that they care as much about the club as we do.
But what I will say is that just coz Bobby says it, doesn’t mean its so. For example:“He deliberately held back on James McCarthy because he knew he was too green to throw in at the beginning of the season. He wanted to do this with Scotland and Gomez, but needs must and he had to bring them in too early and so we haven’t yet seen the best of these two” – the bit about Scotland & Gomez I would have to question the truthfulness of. For starters when he signed Gomez he banged on about how he would be our creative player who much of the play would go through. Yet now he’s saying he didn’t wanna play him that much so soon. As for easing Scotland in, is he now saying he was happy to start the season with only 2 centre forwards he thought were ready to play. Yes you can argue he later says there were players he thought were good enough that weren’t but did he not stop to wonder why, if they were good enough, that Bruce (& to a lesser extent Hutchings) would not have been playing them. If so then he’s either very stupid or very naive
“If you look at McCarthy, Moses, Hugo and Marcelo, we have as good a strike force as anybody especially at home” – No matter how many times he tells himself & us that, its never going to be true
“He still believes we are just two windows from having that team that will push for a top eight place within two year” – Didn’t he initially say that he needed 3 transfer windows??? Now its 4??
“Kirkland in the best form of his career” – No he isn’t. he’s not even in the best form of his time at Wigan Athletic
So yes it was a good gesture for him to do this interview but its done nowt to convince me that he is capable of turning things around for us. If anything its tipped me more the other way
I’ve said this before & I’ll say it again – Paul Jewell’s first season was not a disaster.
He started off very badly admittedly & we were hovering around teh bottom 4 & as you say got knocked out of the cup by Canvey Island but by Xmas he’d turned it around & in the back end of the season our form was play off material.
Yes you could look at the season before when we got to the play offs & say in comparison to that it was a step back but for me that was only in terms of league position. You could also see we were improving as the season went on
Can anybody really say that at the moment considering our record since the end of November?“Don’t know many rugby league fans who ‘despise’ football or rugby union”
You’re either having a laugh or you walk round with your head in the clouds
I have never met a bigger bunhc of chips on their shoulders people in all my life than a hell of alot of rugby league fans.
You only have to read Aspinall’s comments in the WEP every day to see what one rugby league “expert” thinks of rugby union – what is it he calls it “Kick & Clap”. He’s also had rants about his SKY subscription money being used to “subsidise” the football coverage.
Look on your opinion pages of general sports magazines/internet site/teletext next time the rugby union world cup is on & see how many rugby league fans write in about what a poor sport it is & how great their’s is yet why does it get no media coverage
I’ve heard RL fans slating both sports on numerous TV & radio phone ins over the years
My wife’s uncle’s family (all saints ST holders) have a moan about football to me every time I see them
I’ve lost count of the number of times some RL fan in a shop/pub/etc.. in Wigan has told me they can’t stand football “its a p00fs game – watch a real man’s sport” etc…The vast majority of football fans you’ll meet outside of Wigan (and places like Rochdale, Doncaster – where there’s no love lost between the clubs – and to a lesser extent Hull) when asked about rugby league are far more likely to say they don’t care (or know) about RL than they are to say they despise it
Well done ticslad – you were able to say in about 10 lines what it took my an essay to try & explain!!!!
Standish, without wishing to be offensive, I think you’re only seeing what you want to see in that article.
Yes Curbishley states that it “can” be an attacking formation but he also states that its use is “pragmatic” and that managers use it when they’re “facing one of the top teams and not want to get walloped” or they’re “on a losing run that he wants to end”. Not only that but he states “Newly promoted sides often play 4-5-1 as a way of reducing their chances of losing”.
All of which indicate that it can (and is) used as a very drab, game strangling formation just as much as it can be used as an attacking formation.
What I would also say is that all the examples he uses of it as an attacking formation are using top teams i.e. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Portugal & there to me lies the problem with Bobby trying it here. A top team will have far more possession & is able to do far better things with the ball than a relegation fighting team which means they spend far more time with the ball in attacking areas of the pitch, which in turn means that the formation far more than not is 4-3-3 by virtue of where on the pitch they have the most possession.
Switch that to Latics or any other relegation fighting side & those teams spend far more of their time defending meaning when they do get the ball to build an attack they have to hit the front man early & rely on people getting up in support quickly.
As a result you need a good target/ball holding player to keep hold of the ball until others can be brought into play. We don’t have that as neither Scotland or Moreno (from what little I’ve seen of him) look good enough & Rodallega just aint that sort of player.
Not only that, but Bobby is trying to get them to “play out” from the back & we are up against far superior opposition most of the time to be able to do that with the players we have or against teams that just hound our players so they have to resort to a hoof & the ball comes straight back at em
If you haven’t got high quality players then 4-5-1 becomes a very defensive formation as it isolates your front man & (if you play it with left footers on teh right etc..) it doesn’t give you the ability to get in behind teams & stretch their defence
We also have 2 wide men who aren’t the greatest at tracking back & never will be so it doesn’t even give us the defensive stability that 4-5-1 should provideAll of that is why I see 4-5-1 as a defensive formation when its used at Latics. It was when Jewell used it. It was when Bruce used it & it is now Martinez is using it. I’ve said numerous times before its only attacking when used by the top teams
“Martinez has made it work at Swansea. Perhaps therefore it is a lack of quality in the squad that is to blame” – he was able to make it work at Swansea coz you don’t have the vast difference in quality between the top & bottom teams in the lower divisions that Latics are up against & you get far more even games
We will always have that lack of quality in the squad in this division by virtue of the size of club we are & our spending power relative to many others, so to try & “out-football” some of the best teams in Europe with lower quality players is suicide IMO.
Just as its suicide to continue to persevere with it when its clear to anyone with any ounce of sense that we don’t have the quality of players to play that way“What they have to do – and I have said it time after time after time – is they have to be better at getting the big decisions right …
If you look back at the last three matches, you could put a good DVD together of huge mistakes made in big games ….There are just too many big decisions being made that are wrong that are clear for everyone else to see”Quotes from Bobby in wigantoday.net on his performance recently!!
One of the major things that strikes me from watching Latics this season is that they don’t seem to put the oppositon under anything like enough pressure when they have the ball
As dave says, it invites teams to come at usOne thing you’ve pretty much been able to guarantee since we got in the top flight (bar the odd exception) is that we didn’t give teams an easy ride. Its all too common now unfortunately
I fail to see what relevance Alan Curbishley talking about 4-5-1 in 2004 or whatever @ Charlton has to do with Roberto Martinez playing that formation at Latcis in 2010.
The vast majority of those who don’t like the way Latcis have been playing this season are not idiots. They are fully aware that sometimes 4-5-1 can be an attacking formation just as they are aware that it can be an unadventurous formation (In fact Curbishley as good as admits it can be used as either)
It doesn’t alter the fact that it quite clearly isn’t working – at latics & at the present moment in time, not for Charlton in 2004
Whether that be because we don’t have either the quality or type of players to be able to play it well enough or because we may well have but the managerial & coaching staff aren’t good enough to get their ideas across“this article might give more of an insight into what Martinez is trying to achieve” – for a start not it doesn’t give any insight into what Bobby is trying to achieve. It gives an insight into what Alan Curbishley was thinking over half a decade ago. Also, there are alot of things that I’ve tried to achieve in my life. Some I’ve succeeded at & others I’ve failed at. Those I’ve failed at (e.g. my childhood dream of being a pro footballer!!!!!) have usually been because I wasn’t good enough
“The ball stays in play far longer in a game of rugby league thus meaning there is more action for your money”
The ball may well be on the field of play longer in a game of rugby league but considering the stop/start nature of the sport its debatable for how much of that it is actually “in play” i.e. how long it takes between the ref shouting held to the tacklers getting off the player with the ball, to the player with the ball getting up & to him doing that kick back (the name of which escapes me) to re-start play
Still as I said, I don’t mind the sport, just not enough to pay regularly to watch it. Oh & I can’t stand Warriors just in case anyone on here who knows me thinks I was “turning”!!!
