Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Here is a collection of some cracking slide tackles all of which can be deemed far more dangerous than Mcmanman’s.
Do you not think that in a united v arsenal game that if there’d been anything wrong with that challenge that the player himself would have kicked off, along with all his team mates, then Wenger whilst being joined by all the United players defending Rooney??
As it was, the player dusted himself down & took the throw & no-one complained about it from ArsenalRooney’s tackle on Sagna was absolutely appalling, and nothing was given! Unbeleivable how one tackle is interpreted so differently from another. Mind you, it was at Manure, where nobody gets any decisions[/quote]
Tyldsley while I do think you talk tosh most of the time I do have to respect your refereeing opinions as you are clearly more qualified than me to comment on the subject.I just cant see how Mcmanman’s tackle is any more dangerous than any of the tackles in my previous clip.
I am led to believe it becomes a red card once the player has been deemed to have used excessive force? I don’t think that is the case with his tackle as any less force and he wouldn’t have won the ball in the clean manner he did and would of probably clattered the player good and proper.
Overall the timing of the tackle was very impressive.
Your reverence is duly noted Salford
Excessive force is just one criterial a ref can use to justify sending a player off for a challenge but it doesn’t have to be present & it could be argued that it doesn’t apply here
It’s not comparable to any of the challenges you put up coz none of the others are from that angle, with both feet off the floor, nor do any of the other challengers connect with their opponent in a scissor movement whilst both feet were still off the floor – had he gone in more or less along the ground, connected with the ball & the player had fallen over him then fair enough, but he didn’t. He jumped in. Everything about the challenge was wrong & he should use his judgement in that situation to not lunge in & either go in along the deck or wait till he’s better placed (like that Bayern player in your clip)Here is a collection of some cracking slide tackles all of which can be deemed far more dangerous than Mcmanman’s.None of those challenges are anywhere near as dangerous as McManaman’s was.
I couldn’t really see one of them but:
Evra’s – Foul? Yes. Yellow card? yes. It was a reckless challenge but nothing. Note at no point are both feet off the floor
Rooney’s – As with Evra at no point are both feet off the floor in the challenge. The momentum of both players run takes them into each other. Rooney’s run is faster & more powerful & hence the Arsenal guy goes for a tumble
Bayern player – Cracking tackle. This goes to the point I mentioned in my last post that I can see where you’re coming from in that it is nearly impossible for some legitimate challenge to be made without both feet at some point coming off the floor. But look at the angle the player makes the challenge from – completely different to the angle McManaman came in from & was where McManaman should have waited until he was before even attempting to make a challenge. he then wins the ball & comes away with the ball – the only thing that sends the Schalke player over is by having his forward momentum stopped by the path of the ball being blockedWhat should he have done differently ? slithered across the ground to make the tackle? Surely every tackle starts somewhere off the ground?It certainly wasn’t a high tackle! it would have been lucky to hit him in the bottom of his shin! it was a sufficient move to take the player from his starting position to one where he can cleanly take the ball without causing any danger to said play whatsoever!
What more can you ask than that?
That same tackle is made by full backs up and down the country every week!
How anyone can watch the replay back and say it was an automatic red is simply laughable!
We will see what the FA think of it when we appeal it.
I am confident it will be rescinded off what I have seen but if I had a penny for every time I have said that I could buy a packet of crisp so we will see.
I know you think I’m a pedantic fecker Salford but I’m afraid that the ref got it spot on under the current laws of the game.
When I saw it initially on SSN on Saturday night it was a poor camera angle & I suspected that the ref didn’t think McManaman got any of the ball but having just watched it on BBC iplayer I’ve changed my mind.
McManaman “wins” the ball cleanly enough but to go into the tackle from the position that he was in he has had to do so with both feet off the floor. I appreciate what you’re saying in that there are many tackles where at some point both feet come off the floor but he does (as Mr Barnsley says) “jump in” with both feet off the floor. As soon as he does under the FIFA’s guidance he is no longer in control of the challenge in that he can’t stop & it then becomes dangerous so he’s contravened the laws of the game before he has even touched the ball – as such that he then goes on to “win the ball” becomes irrelevant as an offence has already been committed.
So it’s a red card offence already due to dangerous playAs the challenge continues, having connected with the ball, the ref is already looking at dangerous play & then sees McManaman clatter the fella into the air. The clincher is then that with both feet still off the floor, McManaman brings his trailing leg round & kind of scythes/scissors the player down. Combined with the speed that McManaman has launched himself into the tackle it is dangerous play (again) & a red card
Under the current laws of the game it is a red card all day long – it meets all the criteria for a sending off challenge & an appeal would be pointless & could lead to an increased ban for a frivolous appeal.
The debate as to whether a challenge like that should get a player a red card is a different debate but the ref was 100% correct in this instanceWhat should McManaman have done differently? Not made the challenge from that position as the angle he was at & the momentum of play were only ever gonna result in one thing – him being sent off. He should have tried to catch up with Pitman & only make a challenge when he was at least level with him so that he wouldn’t have had to lunge into the challenge in the manner in which he did.
Eddie Howe was spot on in that it wasn’t a malicious challenge (just like the one on the Geordie player wasn’t) but he’s showing some serious misjudgements as to when he can & can’t committ a fair challenge
You may have been right about my “doomsday scenario” but you’re wrong on this one ;)
In addition to Salford’s comments above, it should be pointed out to the original poster that the predominant religions amongst “ethnic minorities” in Southall are Sikhism & Hinduism
As such I’m not sure that Mohammed will be that popular a surname amongst the population thereCutting quotes to suit your nitpicking is all good and well but I shall clarify my point to hopefully ease your pedantic stance.I think over an 8 year period we proved to ourselves and everyone else this club can operate at the top level.
While we may never have the clout to compete with the big boys we showed the world that with a sensible business plan and a more inventive scouting system you can hold your own.
I think our biggest strength was always our business plan in place by Whelan etc.
When it came to the end of the season while not being able to flirt millions on overpriced flops we were always able to strengthen.
When a new manager came in we were always in a position to offer him a reasonable transfer budget to mold the team to their style of play within reason.
All of this good management of the club has led to a position where we have dropped out the PL but have been in a position to take our pick of players available to this level of football within reason.
Despite your pedantic quaffs when I previously suggested we were the most attractive club in the championship to play for minus any QPR silly money deals I would say our activity in the transfer market backs up the above and my previous statement.
We are in a great position to return to the PL at first time of asking and would keep our squad over the likes of QPR and Reading although with the amount of dodgy incomings at Watford they could become our biggest competitor.
All in all it doesn’t take Plato to tell you we deserved to be relegated last season on the amount of points we achieved over the season but the point I am making is there is nothing to stop us going back up and staying there for another 8 years.
I think we are a cut above everyone in this league bar QPR, Reading and maybe Watford if they gel which also goes to show the gap widening between the Premier League season on season and why we want to get back on that cash cow ASAP.
That’s better ;)
I can’t disagree with any of that – even the bit where you reminded me about your comments about Latics attractiveness as a Championship club this season which I strongly disagreed with (not agreeing with someone doesn’t make you pedantic though!!). My doomsday scenario was well wide of the mark even if it remains to be seen how this season’s squad will perform, as (with a couple of notable exceptions) those brought in look impressive on paperReturning to my pedantic roots if you like though, that post read completely differently to your original. It’s a pet hate of mine football fans saying their club deserves or belongs to be somewhere they’re not – probably as a result of having to listen to an endless stream of City & Bolton fans where I lived & worked ovr the years prattling on about where their teams “belonged” when they were both a lot worse off than they are now. You can add PNE & (presently) Liverpool to that list too.
Just never thought I’d hear it from a Latics fan so thank you for correcting your original statement to clarify your position – my faith in latics fans is restored ;) :PJust a thought, so don’t shoot me down, but why not just get rid of the off side rule altogether.Then you’d get the curse of playground football – goal hanging!!!
The problem with saying just make offside anyone beyond the 2nd last defender is it creates instances where a team can be punished for having a bloke down injured nowhere near play but in an offside position.
Or a player over the other side of the pitch doin nowt but picking his nose whilst in an offside positionThe offside law used to be very cut & dried & the interpretations of “interfering with play” were introduced as the above regularly happened & everybody complained. They were also brought in due to teams constantly playing for offside & ruining the game. The idea behind the various interpretations introduced was to benefit the attacking teams. Personally I think they work
If technology does go further than goals then it will probably be for offsides but as Griff has said it wouldn’t completely solve arguments as one teams interpretation of interfering with play would be different from their opponents
This year will be a welcome break.
But hand on heart I think we deserve to be in the premier league with the way the club goes about its business and some of the quality of football we have produced over the past 8 years.
So while a welcome break it is I do want to be back to where we belong riding that fat daddy cash cow.
You sound like a Geordie/West Ham/A.N. Other FC there Salford going on that they deserve to be in the top flight coz of crowds, history etc..
Latics deserve to be in the Championship at present – nowt more ;)[/quote]
Not the point I was making but you have obviously completely missed that as you were so eager to nitpick at anything you can find as per usual.[/quote]
If you’re going to be so touchy then I suggest picking your words more carefully coz there are only so many ways that you can read “we deserve to be in the premier league” & to get “back where we belong” ;)
As it happens I agree with the what (I think) was the sentiment at the end of your original post that I’m going to enjoy this break from the eternal struggle of the premier league but that ultimately I want to see Latics back in there & to stay there – if for nowt else than I need my hours worth of highlights on Football First to watch every weekend rather than 2 minutes on the Beebs’s Football league Show. Or stop reffing & go to watch more gamesThis year will be a welcome break.But hand on heart I think we deserve to be in the premier league with the way the club goes about its business and some of the quality of football we have produced over the past 8 years.
So while a welcome break it is I do want to be back to where we belong riding that fat daddy cash cow.
You sound like a Geordie/West Ham/A.N. Other FC there Salford going on that they deserve to be in the top flight coz of crowds, history etc..
Latics deserve to be in the Championship at present – nowt more ;)
I wouldn’t read too much into a friendly game in which both teams were probably only playing at about 70% rate of effort.
On the subject of Latics aimlessly hoofing it forward, if I’m honest I can’t say that I really noticed it any more than I normally would & I didn’t listen to any of the half time bumpf from the pundits
There’s 2 ways of looking at it though – Bobby was very much a “possession is king” thinker & would rather that his layers retained possession with sideways passing that play a percentage ball forward & risk giving the opposition the ball. The thinking being that if the opposition don’t have the ball then they can’t score. The problem a lot of the time though was that attempting the build up from the back & retaining possession when under pressure lead to countless mistakes & was (IMO) responsible for a large chunk of the poor goals against stats under Bobby.
The other school of thought is if you’re under pressure at the back it is far better to clear the ball away & take the chance of winning possession back further up the field. Even if the opposition win the ball then you are less likely to concede a goal by giving the opposition the ball 20 yards inside their own half than you are giving it away 20 yards from your own goal.In all likelihood its probably better to be able to mix it up a bit & have players who know when its the right time to hoof it & when’s the right time to retain possession – I remember the times that United seemed to threaten the most in the first half was when Latics tried to play balls out from the back & misplaced their passes
Harking back to the Martinez era, for all the talk of how he liked to play it from the back I lost count of the times the keeper would play it out short, the back line would pass it about amongst themselves for an ice age, there were no passes forward available to them, it was knocked back to the keeper who then proceeded to hoof it forward – so its not exactly as if this is an Owen Coyle thing. He’s probably just cutting out the middle bit!!
About time the FA joined the 21st century – just a shame they’ve focused on a complete red herring, and now bought themselves at least another 5, probably 10 years before having to introduce any further tech.How many times last season was there controversy over a goal crossing the line vs goals incorrectly allowed/disallowed for offsides, fouls, etc? The latter is where technology such as video replay is desperately needed.
The introduction of technology into offside & fouls would turn football into an absolute farce.
Besides which it quite simply wouldn’t work at all for fouls – There’s far too much interpretation involved in determining football fouls & I’ve run the line at games where a ref’s penalised a challenge that I’ve seen absolutely nowt wrong with.
You could have all the replays you want & it won’t settle whether a challenge is a foul or not for everyone who saw it.Then there’s the timing of it – if the ref thinks a fould may have been committed, at what point does he review it? Straight away? But what happens if he’s wrong & the team in possession of the ball have been penalised when they did nowt wrong? Does he wait till the next break in play? That could be several minutes away & if it was a foul does the clock get set back to what it was when the foul was committed?
I’ve heard it suggested that you could have someone watching the game & radioing down that a foul/offside has been missed. The ref would lose complete control of the game if the players thought someone else was making all his decisions for himleave it as it is
I would almost go as far to say if things stay as they are we have a better squad of players than last season..Thank gawd that you qualified that with almost or that comment would have just been silly
Brendan O’Connell definitely
Seem to remember Graeme Jones scoring after coming on as a sub against PNE in whatever the capital one cup was called at the time but don’t know if he’d played some part in the first league game of the season a couple of days before
Didn’t Winston White score on his debut – twice including a spectacular overhead kick?
Darren Boughey on loan from Stoke scored 2 in 2 then disappeared
Didn’t Nathan Ellington score on his debut against Chesterfield?
Amr Zaki
