TyldesleyLatic

If the rumours are to be believed then Phelan wants to try his hand at management
If the rumours are also to be believed Meulensteen left United coz he didn’t want to move away from being first team coach back to the youth level & he now feels that he’s ready to move into management
I’d imagine that if either rumour is true then the chances of them agreeing to come to move to a Championship side as first team coach are less than slim.

Dunno about Steele, but I was a massive fan of Phil Hughes when he was keeper here (even got his autograph on the back of my Moscow Torpedo friendly programme!!) so I’d be more than happy with him passing on his wisdom to Latics keepers

They watch him every week, so yes, I’d value their opinions more than either of us watching sporadic games.

I know Nicholls hasn’t proven himself in the Championship; that the whole fecking point of this exchange of posts! Sullivan in particular, is way past his best as a goalkeeper. He’s older than Pollitt. Older than me even (just). So who would you rather have in your goals a 43 year old or a young up and coming 20 year old? I know which I’d choose.

Have to correct you on a factual error though – I’ve only seen 1 Latics reserve game in my life …. I didn’t write off anyone after that game other than to say virtually all of em played very poorly … I think I said about Nicholls that he’d been awful which he was but that he wasn’t the only one. ANYWAY I never wrote off NcManaman after the game coz he didn’t play as I think he was on loan at Blackpool at the time – I do actually like to at least see someone play once before writing them off!!!

Fair enough if you didn’t mention McManaman – my mistake. You did use it to write off Wigan’s development programme however, as that was whole theme of the thread as I (and Garswood if I remember rightly) argued to the contrary that we’d seen things compeltely differently in the Development Squad games we’d watched.

And back to that word ‘proven’. No he’s not proven – but I’d say if you asked a good number of people they’d share the opinion that he’s could be a good keeper in the Championship.

Anyway, over and out. I’m even boring myself now.[/quote]

I don’t know how to split up a quote that way so I’ll have to do it this way:
1) Doesn’t matter how many times they’ve watched him, they’re not (in your words) scouts or football managers so what do they know?
2) If Sullivan & Taylor are good enough then they’re young enough. They are still playing at this level coz they have proved they’re good enough. regardless of whether they’re past their best or not. Personally I would choose whoever was the better keeper be they 43 or 20
3) I don’t recall writing off the development programme more a case of that if anyone was hoping for one of em to come in & rescure the season they’d be in for a long wait coz they’d been dire & a relatively experienced team had been completely mullered by a Liverpool team of 17 yr olds & Jonjo Shelvey (plus some bloke they bought off rangers & have just sold back to a Scottish club). As it happens none of them did!!
4) So basically my original post was right – he isn’t proven. Thanks. You could have saved us all a lot of time & effort in typing if you’d just said that in teh first place

And it still doesn’t apply. There’s a million miles between proving something & thinking something is the case – I don’t think there’s any such thing as God or Gods based on what I’ve experienced. It doesn’t mean I can prove that there is no God or Gods
I fail to see by any dictionary definition how me saying Lee Nicholls hasn’t proved he is good enough is pernickety

And do Americans really say persnickety??

Only coz you can never win a debate
I let the truth speaks for itself

I’m not alluding to it at all. I have seen nowhere near enough of him to have an opinion as to whether he is good enough at Championship level
I’ve seen him play in the flesh once for Latics reserves against Liverpool in 11/12 & he was awful. I saw bits if Northampton’s play off games last season & he played really well in all of them
Nor am I being pernickety I just fail to see how playing well in League 2 proves in any way shape or form that a player is good enough for the Championship. I’ve already explained how I rate the Northampton fans opinions. Aidy Boothroyd’s comments carry far more weight but still even though he has seen him at close quarters for the best part of a season he doesn’t “know” he is as good as Ben Foster until he makes that step up
It’s a chicken & the egg situation. We won’t know till he does step up. I hope to see him do that it’s just he hasn’t proved anything about his ability at this level yet vtgat’s not being pernickety it’s fact

Did he??? When? I thought he was on loan at Northampton Town
I’m not saying that he isn’t good enough or that he shouldn’t be given more of a chance but playing well in the 4th division does not prove you are in any way shape of form good enough for the 2nd division – Lee Butler (after a shaky start) looked a good keeper in the bottom division but I’d never have said he was good enough for the level Latics are at now

That’s a pity coz you missed a belter!! ;)
I’ll keep this short coz I’ll save my lengthier post for LMB but I agree that that point suited my argument & you can just as easily say going off recent premier league history etc.. – however you said yiu can’t think of one reason save QPR as to why Latics wouldn;t be the most attractive proposition to a potential player.
Well there was one – if Latics bid for player X & match the terms on offer by Leicester or some of the other clubs mentioned will a few european games against some obscure teams make that much of a difference when instead of playing in front of a big crowd, they’ll more than likely be playing in front of a more than half empty stadium?
I’ll leave my other points for when you’re more in the mood!!!

Think I’ll have to disagree with you there Salford coz looking at it objectively there will be far more attractive prospects to Championship players than Latics I’m afraid.
Going off prestige, history & club attendances alone (not that I judge things on that but plenty of players & supporters do) Latics will be way down the list behind Birmingham, Watford, Charlton, Leeds, Brighton, Middlesbrough, Leicester, Forest, QPR, Sheff Wednesday, Ipswich & (though it pains me to say it) Bolton. Playing at the DW in front of 10-12k on average won’t be the most appealing prospect
However most players will put that to one side I would imagine if a club pays enough but again I would imagine that Latics will be somewhat behind virtually all of those clubs (many of whom are being bankrolled by very wealthy people) with the exception of possibly Birmingham & Sheffield Wednesday. Even when Whelan was putting his own money into Latics our wage bill was still dwarfed by Ipswich’s during our promotion season even when they were pleading poverty. Latics might have turned in a profit last season but that was with £40mill of TV money & the extra corporate & advertising income that being in the premier league brought in. The TV money has at least halved now & the other income will fall accordingly so Latics will not be able to pay new signings what the Prem League signings were on seeing as how there is a big hole in Latics income stream this season
Yes Latics are in Europe next season but it’s 6 games & unlikely to be many more. I can’t see any of em being particularly well attended at the DW, the TV companies will hardly be falling over themselves to cover Latics games so it will hardly be a showcase for them & the chances are that at least one of em is going to be in some obscure & far flung corner of the continent. Coyle is also likely to rotate his squad so they wouldn’t even have a guarantee of playing in the biggie against the group 1 seed anyway
Then you have the impression that the outside world has of Latics since the club was relegated. The manager (very highly rated in many circles) has gone & been replaced by someone who hardly sets the pulses racing or makes a bold statement of ambition. The chairman has pretty much said that money for new players will come from player sales so some/many of the club’s best players will be shipped out by the time the new ones arrive.
On top of that, not only has the manager gone but the club has lost at least 10 players already from one of the smallest squads in the top flight. That’s likely to have risen to 12-13 come 3rd August. Both the last 2 points give the impression to outsiders of rats deserting a sinking ship & of a club on the slide which in itself is a less attractive proposition than the “monied” clubs on the rise like Leicester, Watford, Forest & I assume QPR who will throw money about to show they don’t intend in hanging round very long.

Coyle has got a rebuilding job on his hands (for example, if I’m right Latics currently only have 2 centre halves on the books, one of who is likely to miss the start of the season after hip surgery & the other won’t have played since January, & are gonna need at least 5 if not 6 next season) so I think whilst promotion has to be the ultimate aim this coming season it is more than likely going to be a season of transition. Hopefully that means a transition where there club can be in play off contention at the very least & not scrapping round at the bottom like Coyle had Bolton doing last season.
Longer term I think for Latics to have any genuine & realistic ambition of getting back into the top flight it will have to be done before the parachute money runs out coz when it does, Latics will no longer have the financial clout to challenge the “bigger” clubs at this level & it’ll take something very special to get us up