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…he also got us challenging for Europe & I believe he’d have got us to the spot that Fulham were able to get that year if he’d been allowed to keep his team together.
My take on that is:
Clubs receive approximately £500k for qualification into the Europa Cup plus bonuses per game, but on the other hand, their spend on chartering aircraft and general logistics for away group games takes a huge chunk of that. When you then add staffing costs, stewarding, police, players’ bonuses, etc etc, your prize money is suddenly not a great deal at all, and you are relying on supporters coming through the turnstiles and willing to splash some cash to make it more attractive – something we’re not overly blessed with at Wigan (I mean the paying bit, not the attractive bit).
On top of the money side of things, you’ve then got your small squad playing at least six extra midweek games per season, when ideally they should be resting and concentrating on their league form.
Perhaps it was a case of Mr Whelan et al weighing up the pros and cons and thinking ‘Is it really worth getting into Europe, and should we start cutting our wage bill now and perhaps aspire for a top half finish?’
As much as European football is exciting, it’s also drain on resources – especially for a small, commercially unfashionable club like Wigan.
Just a thought like…please feel free to discuss.[/quote]
I find it hard to disagree with that although I’m not sure why you quoted that bit of what i said as that is only me saying that I believe Bruce could have got that team into Europe – not whether I thought that was a good or bad thing. maybe you were relating to a previous post where I said I didn’t agree with Whelan’s timing when it came to breaking up that squad & I’ll be honest & I say I’d never really thought of it in those terms before. being in the Europa league has affected some clubs more than others in both a good or bad way
Regardless of that though it’s not really relevant to whether Steve Bruce is to blame for Bobby’s lack of funds – unless he’s being blamed for doing too well!!
I know how much he spent and I know how much I hated watching his style of play.That said, if he comes back, he’ll get my full support just like every otehr manager has. Fortunately, I don’t think he will.
I know how much he spent too. The point I was making was that he spent it with Whelan’s blessing so he is not to blame in any way for Martinez’s reduced budget (in comparison to that if his predecessors). he may have spent big (in comparison to Bobby) but he also got us challenging for Europe & I believe he’d have got us to the spot that Fulham were able to get that year if he’d been allowed to keep his team together.
I liked Bruce’s style of play as you know – when it clicked it was a joy to watch (IMO). When it didn’t work it was dire but I enjoyed watching them try to make it work ;) . Similarly, when Bobby’s style has clicked it’s great (even prior to our recent run) when it hasn’t, its been awfulThat said, I wouldn’t want him back
OK, let me re-phrase it to appear less naive.Under Bruce (agreed with Whelan’s blessing) we spent a fortune on wages (not mynopinion, facts) and achieved rag all other than the dizzy heights of 11th (?, I think) and them dropped like a stone after Christmas.
Probably feeling a bit relieved that we got away with that profligate spending without achieving anything of note, Whelan tightened the purse strings under Bobby. Therefore, Bobby is suffering from what Bruce spent, whichever way you choose it look at it.
Bruce can’t manage a football team without throwing money at it. As he is unlikely to have that option here, I doubt he will be offered, nor would he accept, the position.
That’s better ;)
Although Latics were 7th, pushing for Europe & going great guns under Steve Bruce when Dave Whelan decided to tighten the purse strings (prior to Bobby arriving). They “dropped like a stone after Xmas” to 11th – in no small part due to Dave Whelan deciding to break that team up in mid-season against the wishes of his manager. Now I’m not gonna argue that results & performances were much kop from 1st Feb onwards but I think given the fact that the chairman had told everybody that their job for the season was done & an ambitious manager had had his team broken up against his wishes & told in no uncertain terms that his job was to keep us up & that is it I think the tailing off in form was understandable. Of an employees motivation goes their productivity drops.
Bobby is suffering because of what Dave Whelan allowed his previous managers to spend (John Deehan, Ray Mathias, Bruce Rioch, Paul Jewell, Chris Hutchings & Steve Bruce) & not purely because of what bruce spent – as I mentioned 3 of the club’s biggest earners were not even bruce signings
As for whether Bruce can manage a team without throwing money at it – well the Sunderlan fans would argue that he can’t do that, but the only time he was in charge of Latics & was unable to spend he turned the shambles of Chris Hutchings side round in the space of 2 weeks.
By the way, I’m not saying I want Bruce back just that I think you do him a big dis-service, just as i & many others have done the same to Bobby over the last 3 seasonsQuite an interesting read & I had never realised that about the Chelsea game back in 2010, although i do remember us playing really well prior to Caldwell’s sending off.
Having said that though the article kinds of lets itself down by stating that the first time Bobby used the system this season was in the away game at Bolton when it had been used in all but a handful of games for some 2 months prior to that Bolton game. Lack of research like that kind of makes me wonder what other b0ll0x they’ve put in the article & tried to sound clever about
No, it’s because he nearly bankrupted the club when he was here and is the reason why Martinez has had nothing to spend for three years.Oh, and he plays the dullest, most neck-wrenching football, in Christendom.
Griff – If there’s one thing from reading your posts on here that I didn’t think you were, it’s naive but I think that first comment above is incredibly naive ;)
Steve Bruce is not the reason why Martinez has had “nothing to spend” (although the fact that it is a Martinez signing which is the club’s record transfer fee kind of indicates that he has hardly had nothing to spend!!).
The reason why I think it’s naive to say it’s Bruce’s fault is that Whelan keeps an iron grip on the budgets & spending within his businesses & I doubt that Latics are any different. If you think Steve Bruce spent money on players & their wages without first having had those spends authorised by the big fella then you’re living in cloud cuckoo land.
The point being that every manager under Whelan has operated under the budgets allowed to them by him – the fact of the matter is that for reasons I completely understand (although I’ll never agree with the timing of them) Whelan decided that the club could no longer continue along those lines & that they needed to move towards making the club self-sufficient. If Bruce had stayed he would have had to operate under the same budget as Bobby has. What’s more, there were plenty of players at the club on massive wages when Bobby arrived who weren’t signed by Bruce (Koumas, Kirkland, Bramble etc..).
The reason Bobby has had “nothing to spend” ;) is because of Dave Whelan not Steve Bruce or any other Latics managerI don’t blame Bobby for wanting to talk to them – who in life doesn’t want a better paid job & in football in particular, where he could have the chance to make himself into a legend to millions of people as opposed to 18000 or so on a good day. I also doubt that he’ll be put off by knowing that he’ll have to hit the ground running or be dumoped as quickly as Hodgson was because to do so would mean that he would have no faith in his ability to do the job & if there’s one thing Bobby does have it’s complete & total faith in his ability to do the job & that his way is the right way.
I also don’t blame Whelan for allowing Bobby to talk to them. Yes it would probably go down better with the fans if he turned round like Norwich’s chairman re lambert & said they will fight tooth & nail to keep him, but at the end of the day if Lambert wants to go he will go. Whelan knows that with Bobby & I’m pretty sure that he’ll fight to ensure the club is well compensatedMy own personal opinion is that I don’t think they’ll offer it to him as in the cold light of day I think they’ll know that a) he’s probably not ready (same with Rodgers who they have also approached) & that they as a club aren’t ready for his “long-term” rebuilding style & b) that they would in fact be basing their decision on the last 9 games out of his 114 game reign (as well as he has done at Latics & as much as I’m looking forward to next season if he’s in charge) the fact of the matter is that if they’d sacked Dalglish in early march Bobby wouldn’t even have been on their radar c) as someone else has pointed out it would go down like a lead balloon with their supporters (although with dalglish’s sacking they look prepared to show that they don’t always care what they want) & d) from reading the Echo a short time ago they have also started to make moves to speak to some big hitters including a bloke called Klopp who I believe has been very successful in germany.
From Bobby’s viewpoint the only reasons I can see him turning it down (if offered) are that they just seem a club being run by people operating in a fog & not really knowing what they need to do (& I think Whelan has been quite clever in alluding to that with his “they’ve got no soul” comments) & (again from reading the Echo) they seem to want a manager prepared to operate within a structure & in a direction that they’ve already decided they want to go in & Bobby seems to want complete & total control from top to bottom
Did I?? goodpost goodpost
Missed that one. I’ll have to get working on my acceptance speechEDIT – just seen it. Mind you he’s not even spelt my name right. No excuse really either as Salford’s only literally round the corner ;) ;)
Two correct. One more at Springy, around 1978 and one in a pre-season tournament at their gaffI’m presuming that the pre-season tournament one was the Isle of Man in the Manx tournament you got to enter by winning the Lancs-Manx Cup the pre-season before
One thing always stuck in my memory though in the Moscow Torpedo game,
The ball went into touch just in front of me (I was leaning on the wall)
a Torpedo player picked up the ball Johnny king comes running over shouting to the Torpedo player “give me the f***ing ball you Russian t**t”
and it was only a friendly.I think that must be a different Moscpw Torpedo game than the one the first poster about the game mentioned
i was at the one where Phil Hughes was in goal – it wound up 0-0 & incidentally I have a programme from it that I got Phil Hughes to sign (great keeper he was). Johnny King was long, long, long gone by thensomeone get a link on, that end behind the foal was brilliant that day, brilliant following…I miss them games to be fair hahaYeah it was. Every time I went to carlisle they seemd to put you in a different part of the ground. That’s the only time I can recall every being in that bit & whenever I see brunton park on the telly now they just have flags hanging in that bit.
Bobby’s through ball to Andy Saville to put him clear for the last goal was a peach to & fainting to shoot before putting it through Tony Caig’s legs was about the best thing Saville did for us.
If I remember rightly although we won 3-0 it was a really close game that could have gone either wayThe club took the decision to close of ES1 & to only allow ST holders into ES2 (I think that second was is true but I may be wrong) because of incidents of home & away fans chucking stuff at each other from these areas (and the areas in the north stand that are netted off too) .
Like you say United & City fans can be separated by a double line of coppers but Wigan Athletic have to put about 50ft between the 2 sets of supporters
