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I keep saying this, if DW have of spent some of the dosh on an top Academy we could be cherry picking right now. bar central London you couldn’t be in a better catchment area for young talented players when released with 4 of the top 8 Prem clubs within pishin distance. Hindsight is a wonderful but in the case of an Academy and Wigan it was an necessity.
I get the point you’re making but to say we would be cherry picking right now for the best youngsters is over egging it somewhat.
Latics would still be feeding off the scraps/rejects from the likes of United, City, Liverpool & Everton.
Academies aren’t the be all & end all of producing good young players which is the reason why many clubs below the top flight have scrapped them coz they cost a lot of money without producing any better results than the traditional youth set ups.
At the time of being in the top flight, Latics had a set budget & to have had an Academy would have cost millions in set up costs & an additional £2mill a season to run. It would also have taken years for results to start to come through. The club could have spent that money but it would have meant spending less on players ready to jump straight into the first team squad which may have meant that our stay in the top flight would not have lasted as long as the 8 seasons that it did. So instead the club made the decision to spend the money on the here & now in order to try & keep us in the top flight & hopefully eventually to be able to set up an Academy.
I can completely understand why they went down the route that they didso that leaves 6,000 home fans and you can subtract the guaranteed attendance figures from season ticket holders so how many were really there? 4000? MASSIVE support.You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that 6000 people have bought season tickets & 2000 of them (a third) decided not to bother going on Saturday.
Yes they’ll have been a few & some of them will even have gone to Wembley for the Challenge Cup but no way on earth would those numbers have been anything even remotely close to 2000To me the over reacting and feigning he had been hit in the face when obviously he hadn’t is cheating.
It is marrer but Dunk was sent off for violent conduct which is always a red. No matter what the provocation the ref will send a player off the minute he raises a hand,fist head in retaliation. Tilders is the best one to clarify the officials position.[/quote]
You’re right Nuneaton – it becomes violent conduct as soon as a punch, kick or head butt is thrown whether it connects or not
As for the Pompey player – I wasn’t at the game, but the highlights I’ve seen from Sky don’t prove that the punch was in the chest & not the face. It looks like the face to me if I’m honest. I think that you’d be really hard pressed to prove that he simulated getting punched in the face to get Dunkley sent off that evidence
You can caution a player for simulation even if a foul etc. has been committed. I refereed a game in the Liverpool County Premier League where I awarded a penalty for s shirt pull but cautioned the player who’d been fouled for simulation coz he went down arms flailing & screaming like he’d been shot.
It’s not something I’d do again though coz whilst the assessor backed me up but it just brought me a whole heap of grief from the players team for the rest of the gameHi mate,Like I said the “safe standing” campaign is led by the rail seat licensees. I dont doubt that fans have called for it ever since the ban but this specific campaign is funded and promoted by the company, thats why theres no open debate about other options for standing.
Again im not saying people are idiots but shoukdnt the campaign be safer standing rather than safe. Like you said standing isnt completely safe.
The point im making about the key and bringing down the seat is that again it makes it more unsafe. The key will be a generic allan key or similar and trust me they will be easy to get hold of or people will find other ways to drop the seat.
In an emergency at any sports club people can be asked to make their way to pitch level anything that restricts the direction people can move in an emergency can cause injurys. With the current seats people can clamber over them if need be in a rush. For instance what would happen if a rail seat aisle is blocked on one or both exits?
I totally agree its not planned that way but in an evacuation people will jump seats and in doing so reduce the weight of traffic to aisles.
Personally I think its daft us going back in time
Safer/safe?? It’s splitting hairs Faz. Like I said, people know you can’t make it completely safe just like seating isn’t completely safe
I’m not sure how the odd person getting hold of a key makes it any more unsafe than normal seating. Have there been any reports of mass unlocking of the seats causing an issue in Germany? Make the seats on a spring like they are normally & even if someone unlocks it there is no more of an issue than with the current seating.
People clambering over the existing seats in an emergency can cause accidents. I’ve seen it. However regardless like I said, the stadiums are designed to be evacuated within a specific amount of time using the aisles & rows so there would not be any issue about evacuating. The weight of traffic to the aisles doesn’t need to be reduced – they’re designed for it.
And it isn’t going back in time – goIng back in time would be a return to massive terraces with pens & crush barriers every 5-10 metres. This proposals, other than being in an upright position are nothingn of the sortWith the greatest respect to jay and the club who I presume have asked him to ask this I find it farcical that they don’t know the full facts about it. For instance it’s not 1 person per rail seat when the seats are locked upright it’s 1.5 per space.
Wasn’t aware of that, I thought it was the same capacity as seating, 1 per “seat”.
I voted (very narrowly) against. If that’s correct info, I’m now strongly against. Been to games years ago where you couldn’t put your hand in your pocket without elbowing the person next to you so I’m out….
That’s the same anywhere to be fair
As part of my job, from time to time I have to calculate the safe capacity for a particular room based on fire regs & h&s guidance.
The only change to the formula goes off how the room is set up I.e. Standing, sitting in rows, sitting around tables etc.,
The 1.5 guidance in this instance (if true) is nothing like a return to the packed terraces of yesteryear where there were smaller, shallower steps with people stood on each one & a crush barrier every so many rows. This is on the existing steps with a barrier on every row.
But as I’ve mentioned elsewhere if they bring in the safer standing & you don’t want to use it, go in the seats. If you do want to use it then stand up – I’m just baffled as to why some people who prefer to sit down seem to be so vehemently against giving people the option of standing upFaz – I’d disagree with a hell of a lot that you say in your post.
Of course there is a company who offer rail seats & they have toured and put forward proposals to clubs & the FSF but the campaign for safe standing has been fan led for almost as long as the standing areas have been removed from higher level football – and was one of the reasons why the initial Taylor Report recommendation for it across all divisions in professional football was never imnplemeneted
Secondly. We’re not idiots. People know that there is no way to make standing at a football game completely safe. You will always have accidents. People also know that the rail seating will not prevent you from moving from side to side but to be fair, seating at football ground isn’t completely safe either – I’ve injured myself in seating whether that be from whacking my legs on the back of the seat in front coz there isn’t enough room (Swindon Town & I still have the scars to prove it & Scott Green was playing that day to give you a sense of how long ago that was) or whether that be going over the seat in front celebrating a goal coz the banking of the stand was too steep & the height of the back of the seats not high enough (Wembley May 2013)
Thirdly on the off chance that someone is able to get hold of the key to move the seat down & stand on it – a) They’ll be an individual who is quickly lobbed out & b) it’s unlikely that the entire stand will do it or even enough people to make it a safety issue will be able to do it . A c) as well is that currently people can & do stand on the seats in ground anyway so I fail to see what point you’re making
People can currently move side to side when the seats are up. How would it cause any more injury than at present or represent any more of a danger if people need top leave in an emergency
Finally, the current seats aren’t designed for the occupants to be able to get over them & get to pitch level in the event of an emergency. Stadiums are designed for people to use the rows & aisles to evacuate whether that be through the stand (if you are at the top half of a stand in the DW) or at pitch level via the gangway at the front. The safety calculations make no account for people vaulting over the seats and various tests are done to ensure that using the rows, aisles & evac routes that the stadium can be completely evacuated within a specific time.
I’m sorry but at the moment, not a single one of the points you raised above stands up to any sort of scrutiny
Agree with T to a point, but I don’t think that a whole stand of it would be a goer. In East where they are stood up now is probably the logical place to put it, but does that sit well with WW.
Could well be a pointless discussion, as if DS and JJ are not up for it, there is o chance it will happen anyway, not in the immediate future anyway.I don’t think that it works if you put it at the end of the east stand. If you did, then the people sat in ES3 & possibly beyond would struggle to see anything down in that corner if the people to the right of them are stood up all the way through.
Putting any standing area in the south stand makes much more sense & move the family stand over into the EastIn my opinion the Football League/Checkatrade Trophy should be scrapped without question.
As much as I enjoyed watching us win it in 1999, its always been a competition that has attracted low attendances until the regional 2 legged finals (or even the final if it’s Latics) but putting the U23 sides from the top 2 divisions in as some kind of sop to them in order to put down the calls for B sides in professional football, it has just killed it stone dead.
2 seasons ago I really wanted Latics to win it & was gutted when we got beat by Barnsley. Now I really couldn;t give 2 hoots about it & seeing my club have to face up against Middlesbrough U23’s 4 years after we won the FA Cup is just a further reminder of how far we have fallen in that time & holds no appeal to me.
The League Cup I would keep, however ultimately we have to realise that most club’s concern if to climb as high up the league as possible.
Take our game last night – Villa need to get back in the top flight before their parachute payments halve & to make them a more attractive opposition to potential buyers. Latics need to get out of League 1 for the long term good of the club. Neither of those club’s is going to risk injuries or suspensions to any player that may harm those goals of promotion.
There are various things that would make it a more attractive opposition but the main two I guess would be to offer more prize money for winning each tie & a Champions League spot for the winner. The PL will never agree to the latter & I guess the FL is hamstrung by how much cash it can afford to pay out in order for the former to be a goerLooks like our second string are weaker than what we thought looks decent on paper, Griggs on his way.To be fair though, apart from games like this, we would never expect to call on all 11-16 of the squad last night to step into the breach at the same time. No doubt Villa’s 2nd string performed worse than their first chpice XI would have done in spite of the scoreline
I’d be quite happy though for pretty much all of them to step into their specific positions if the first choice was injured or suspended but you;re never really going to be asking for more than 2 or 3 of them to do that at any one timePersonally, I would be all for it.
I can’t see what objection anyone would have to it – if you would prefer to sit down then use the seated areas. If you would prefer to stand use the standing areas. It’s a matter of choice & why should anyone who prefers to sit have the right to deny anyone else the chance to stand
You don’t have any of the safety issues that occurred with the old terracing with a crush barrier at every row
You’re no more likely to cause trouble standing than sitting & but (as jayt has explained), as it is literally a case of one person stood where one person would previously been sat, any trouble makers can just as easily be id’d & apprehended as if they were sat down because they won’t be in a mass of constantly moving people.If you’re asking on behalf of the club in your role as fan rep jayt, my personal opinion is for the club to apply for it & I would convert the whole South Stand into this rail seating/standing for home supporters. That way you’ve got 5,500 standing spaces & 14,000 seating spaces & everybody has the choice.
I see too many issues to make the North Stand the same as some away supporters will want to sit & to make the stand half seating/half standing just adds extra logistical problemsI once suffered ankle ligament damage at Springy and ended up leaving in an ambulance after a surge and me being pushed down the steps. Funnily enough I’ve never left the DW injured after a game. Also I fear that if standing became prevalent again at stadia country wide it could see a return to the bad old days of violence and racial abuse. It is so much easier to identify someone in a specific seat and has seen the game become more civilised. I’m against it obviously.I did my ankle ligaments at Springfield Park too celebrating a Paul Rogers equaliser against Gillingham in 1999 but in the lower half of that terrace there was no crush barrier. If they’d had this rail seating then I wouldn’t have been able to move forward or backwards & so wouldn’t have got injured. I also floored everyone within about 10 feet of me too.
I assume that with a barrier at every row then the crowd surge that caused your accident wouldn’t have occurred eitherIncidentally as 2 old St John’s guys were carrying me down the steps (where the Popular Side met the Town End) in one of those rickety chairs with wheels on, Simon Haworth scored to put us 2-1 in front. My celebrations nearly caused a second accident
To be fair to cookie he is playing with toni and massey who are both strikers grigg on the bench keeping them on their toes not a lone striker.It’s a lone striker system. Yes there are supporting players who can play up front, but in this system they’re asked to do other roles & push forward in support
I’d describe a striker as the player/s who play in that last line of the formation. Cook favours what people call a 4-2-3-1 so to me it’s a lone striker system. If it was 4-4-2 there’d be 2 strikers. 5-3-2 = 2 strikers. 4-3-3 = 3 strikersSurely a professional footballer should be able to adapt to either way of playing.Not really. Players have their positions because that’s where they’re best at playing. If you play them in another position they won’t play as well regardless of the coaching & if you go off what Barrow said & presumably why Cook very swiftly decided to get rid, he isn;t the best at taking advice on board
Stuart Barlow was a great centre forward for us but he fed off the work of Liddell & Haworth (I use the term “work” very loosely about Haworth). Play him as a lone striker & he’d have been awful.
What i dont understand with ourselves as a club, is why keep signing strikers who are so used to playing as part of a front 2, to then be asked to play as a lone striker.We all know that it was martinez who started the whole 1 up top business. Jason scotland was signed for that purpose. Had we have been a championship club upon martinez’s appointment, we would have all been raving how good the guy was. Championship was scotland’s level. Scotland’s problem was that he could simply not cope with the premier league.
Every other striker we have signed since has simply not been able to adapt to the 1 up top system. The only exception is will grigg, who (certainly as a league 1 striker) is proven playing up top on his own.
If we are to persist with the 1 up top, sign strikers (depending on what level we are at) suited to that role.
Kone could play it & so could Di Santo
That said, I do agree with your general point as to why our scouting network has seemed ill equipped (under numerous managers) to find centre forwards suited to that system. It’s a specialist system & it doesn’t take long of watching a centre forward before it becomes obvious what type of system suits them best. That said, Benson advised Whelan that Boselli couldn’t play it & the manager pushed it through anyway & Benson leftIn Bogle’s defence, I’ve moved down south & don’t get to watch us so much anymore, but i did go to the QPR game at Loftus Road last season. In the 1st half he was way & above our best player & wound up winning & converting the penalty that brought us level – his movement was good, his pace was good & his strength on the ball was good. As soon as we’d gone 2-1 down though early in the 2nd he turned into utter dog turd although at the time I put that down to the players losing heart & him feeding off the scraps of loose balls that were aimlessly hoofed up field from defence
