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I stand corrected re the actual cause of Best’s death but he was back on the sauce at the time and actually allowed one of the big newspapers to photograph him on his death bed with the message ” Don’t Die Like Me ! ” As for Gazza, his money has been used to have him admitted to many top class rehab clinics and psychiatric hospitals and he has been given countless chances down the years, something that our street drunk would never ever receive ! His multiple drink driving offences don’t auger too well either ! The comments underneath his latest drunken video are split with support and no sympathy and I just happen to be in the latter camp !
You can argue his alcoholism caused his death as if he hadn’t been an alcoholic then he wouldn’t have needed a liver transplant & then he wouldn’t have had the side effects of the drugs he was taking. That’s why I think he let the Sun take & publish the photo of him.
I just think that it’s too easy to dismiss all alcoholics as people with no self-control – no doubt there are many where it has come about as a result of people just enjoying a drink a bit too much but for many it’s far more complicated than that
What caused it in George Best I don’t know although there are some who argue there can be a genetic trait & his mother was an alcoholic. My dad also knew him quite well when he first came over from Belfast (the house he lodged at was in the same cul-de-sac) & he always used to say that he’d never met anyone as shy as him in his life & maybe the drink was his way of coping with being thrust in the limelight like he was
As for Gazza – this probably doesn’t sound very PC but he always seemed a bit unbalanced to me. I remember seeing some interview of his after (I think) the Spurs v Arsenal cup semi at Wembley in 1991 where he was just babbling nonsense & making random grunts & stuff at the camera. Also saw a documentary on him once that claimed he was suffering from undiagnosed/untreated tourettes. Both of which (if correct) could lead to how he has ended upCaptains of our own destiny and he has had more than enough chances ! Look at George Best, given a new liver and a second chance and he pissed it up the wall when someone else could have had that liver ! If you saw someone on the street in the same state as Gazza was in that video you would think ” Look at that pisspot what a disgrace ” The only difference is, that pisspot would have no means of any help because they are just government statistics who nobody gives a fuck about whereas the likes of ex professional footballers have shit loads of money and connections to aid them in times of despair ! It was pitiful watching that video and I would say from the evidence of it that he wont make next Christmas which is a sad assessment for anyone let alone a guy who had so many chances to turn things around !Just a couple of points:
1) George Best did not die because he pished his new liver up the wall. He died due to complications caused by the immunosuppressive drugs he needed to take following his liver transplant & which ultimately caused multiple organ failure. It’s a high risk factor for all transplant patients
2) Having money is no barrier to prevent the kind things (mental health issues, depression etc..) which can ultimately lead to alcoholism. Alcoholism isn’t purely the result of a person who is unable to exercise some form of self-control over their drinking or to know when it is or isn’t a good idea to start in the first place. In some cases it is in he vast majority it isn’tI know the comments weren’t really aimed at me as I’ve deliberately been avoiding the Bobby is garbage/no he isn’t arguments as a result of winding up with egg on my face for the previous 3 seasons, but I enjoy wading into a good argument & couldn’t resist getting into this one!! :evil:
I’d argue that the change last season impacted on more than just the wing backs. Switching to 3 centre halves for a start & the way the 1/3/call it what you like up top was important to
I’ve also argued last season that no formation is right or wrong & that the important thing is to find the one best suited to the personnel you have. Last season the 3-4-3 fitted that bill – to me that doesn’t mean it proved itself just that it worked for that set of players who were available. This season through injuries & a player sale it doesn’t work. Bobby said himself when Moses left that there was no point trying to replace him as he was unique but that it would mean changing the way the system was played but my own personal opinion is that without a Moses/N’Zogbia type player to produce tricks, moments of unpredictability & the ability to get in behind the opposition, then it doesn’t work as well.
Where I would agree with you is that the system can’t be blamed for the absolute b0ll0xs dropped week in & week out during the game nor the loss of form of Al Habsi – for the 1st Soton goal on Saturday Scharner just stopped tracking his man & for the 2nd, as soon as the cross came in the whole defence stopped instead of the nearest man (Caldwell) attacking the ball & it allowd their scorer to make up about 8 yards on the last defender & toe poke it home. That is just rank back defending whether it comes in a 4 at the back, 3 at the back, 5 at the back or john deehan’s 6 at the back
With the injuries though if I was a manager who played 3 centre halves & 1 or 2 of them were injured or at time 3 of my first 4 were unavailable & the others available were wet behind the ears I might look at whether I could change to a system that accomodated my fit 1st choicers without having to call on the second choicers. I think the impression Bobby gives at times with his team selections under such circumstances is that he will play that system even if it means having to put central midfielders at centre half or left wing back when another option could be to switch to 4 at the back & put an extra man in midfield/up frontLike I said though in the past I’ve accused him of being clueless & been wrong so I’m sitting on the fence these days
If you’re talking about things on the pitch changing, then for probably the 1000th time, I would ask how on earth you and others think that with the same personnel simply changimg the way we play will immediately make the team world beaters.
Why wouldn’t it work? It did last season!! ;) ;) :whistle:[/quote]
Exactly, he settled on a way of playing that worked for us. We just haven’t been playing quite as well this season and the injuries, rub of the green, etc haven’t helped.
The tacit notion, however, that other teams change their formations and style of play the first time they fail to win 8-0 is absurd.[/quote]
I’m not saying whether he should or shouldn’t change the formation & style but I do think that just as absurd as thinking a manager should do that the first time you don’t win 8-0 is thinking that (most) Latics asking for some sort of change are doing so because we didn’t beat Southampton 8-0.
They’re calling for it because the team has won once in 12 games. It’s not a minor blip or a freak result it is a third of the season of bad results & includes failures to beat 6 of the teams in & around us during that time.
Last season when Bobby (finally ;) ) could see the 4-5-1 wasn’t working coz it didn’t suit his players he changed it & it worked. From the back end of the season available personnel have changed, whether that be through sales or injuries, so maybe it would work again if he changed his system to suit the players he does have available. For arguments sake, if all your experienced centre halves are inured then why persist in playing 3 centre halves in every game
Maybe it wouldn’t work but what he is trying at the moment isn’t working either & hasn’t for the majority of the season & there is only so much of that can be blamed on bad luck, refereeing decisions & injuriesPersonally after proving me wrong for the previous 3 seasons I’m prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but I can understand those who feel that he should change tact
If you’re talking about things on the pitch changing, then for probably the 1000th time, I would ask how on earth you and others think that with the same personnel simply changimg the way we play will immediately make the team world beaters.Why wouldn’t it work? It did last season!! ;) ;)
I’m personally don’t mind we missed out on Stones. He’s an 18 year old young lad, a good prospect but right now we need players but experienced players who can get us out the shitte.
I’m pretty sure you wouldnt have seen him this season , Ithink we should now concentrate on our new Academy setup and bring our own through which aint about feckin time considering how many years we’ve been in the prem ffs.
I was wondering why we were pursuing such a young player who we definitely would not have seen for several months when our defensive shortcomings are there for all to see. Threadbare and prone to numerous errors yet neither seem to have been addressed ?[/quote]
We persued him now as if we didn’t he would gone elsewhere, so we tried to sign him before another ‘Big’ club did, which would then leave us with no chance of ever being able to persue him again (I know he signed for Everton anyway but that’s not the point). So we treid to get hold of him when we had the chance, and fair play to the club for doing so. It seems as though we were unlucky.
Also he may have featured this season, he is 18 I know but weirder things have happened than an 18 year old playing in the Prem. B)[/quote]
I suspect you know full well what I meant by not seeing him for several months because RM does not like throwing kids in at the deep end and he has quoted that ! We needed to shore up the defence now and I know what you mean re one for the future but our future in the Prem is at stake here and so an immediate fix was needed in my opinion. Scharner is RM’s answer and so we must respect that I guess but I have my reservations ! The fat lad out on the left wing concerns me ! ;)[/quote]
To be fair to Latics part in this whole Stones deal, I have read in numerous places for a couple of months that Everton were monitoring him.
If Latics did know the price Barnsley were after & if they had gone in at that price straight away (which I doubt a club ever does) then I think that Everton would have stepped in at that point anyway.
They quite clearly wanted him (probably with a long term plan in mind) & Latics having a bid accepted forced their hand when they may have been prepared to wait until the summer
It wasn’t Latics that released news of the bid being accepted but Barnsley I suspect in the knowledge that they knew other club’s were waiting in the wings & hopefully of getting a higher price or more up front etc..Only my suspicions but I don’t think Latics/Bobby/Whelan/Jonathan Jackson did anythign wrong here
Tyldesley – yes it goes on, but it’s still illegal. It’e even illegal in the Wigan Amateur League.Mind you, riding your bike with no lights is illegal too, but no-one’s arsed.
There’s nowt in the rules against the scenario I described. It’s the club’s meeting/talking with the player involved that isn’t allowed. All my example was was a general discussion
And I’m @r$ed about people riding bikes without lights on. I nearly ploughed into some bell end the other day doing that – no lights & wearing a black top & black keks
12.5 m
Samba to qpr.
Wrong. Hope they go bust.Not only that, but apparently he’s on £100,000 per week.
Mental.[/quote]
If QPR are spending that on a transfer & salary then I’d wager it is because their chairman has authorised it.
I’m sure redknapp went with a list of ideal targets, they’ve costed them up & made bids accordingly
Redknapp seems to get the blame for “ruining” clubs but he only spends what the owners tell him he can just as if he was at Latics he’d have to operate under Latics budgetYou’re not telling me you think clubs say I like the look of him, offer his club 5 million, they accept, you contact the player and he says no thank you?
That is exactly what I am telling you :silly:[/quote]
Thank god you’re not in charge of our transfers! :woohoo:[/quote]
Same goes fo you fella, we would have a transfer ban after our first enquiry![/quote]
I’m pretty certain that there is so form of contact between a club & a potential transfer target before a hell of a lot of deals are done.
I don’t think that contact would be between Bobby/Whelan/A.N. Other from Latics & McGeady directly but through his agent – a lot of players are represented by the same agents & a lot of clubs approach the agents & ask who they have that may be interested in joining em. He says yep, McGeady would be some prelims are discussed & then agent goes to player who says he’d talk to us. Bid goes in, is accepted & possibly player hears from his agent that another club are interested & have indicated they would pay at least £10k a week more so McGeady says he’s no longer interested in talking to Latics.
Just a theory but no rules have been broken & I know that happens (a mate of mine deals with agents at a top flight football club)That said, all the goss goin on at the moment about Latics & McGeady could be b0ll0x
The 1993 game was the last game of our relegation season where some Latics fans carried a coffin round the away end
The 2-2 was Benson’s season where we’d lost the week before to Wrexham at home & it looked like we were out of the running & then (I think) went 2-0 down in the Bournemouth game only to pull it back late on (didn’t Neil Roberts score the equaliser?)If there are other incidents you’d need confirming I’m not your man coz in 1993 I was just finishing my a-levels & surviving off my wages as a steward at Latics & spends from mummy & daddy so I couldn’t afford a weekend in Bournemouth
Me & a mate had tickets for the 2000 game but after the Wrexham game we went to the ticket office & got our money back :blush: :blush:
I would’ve imagined that the 2000 game was the one with the bigger Latics followingLike Griff I’m only going off what I saw on Football First but I thought that the 1st half was as bad as I’ve seen Latics play in a long time.
The performance was completely disjointed, players unable to trap a bag of cement, retain possession or find a team mate with a simple pass. The only saving grace was that Stoke were almost as bad
I also thought that the 2 goals were symptomatic of everything that has been wrong with Latics season – Keystone Cops defending for the first (1st rule of a defensive header – get it up high & away, not out a head height back into a crowd of players) whilst yet again Al Habsi pushes a shot straight back out into the danger zone instead of away.
I defended Ali on here a few weeks back but he’s at the point where he’s costing us more points than he’s saving us & has done all season (I read on a BBC web preview of one of our recent games that Ali is top of the tree this season for mistakes that cost his team goals & points). I don’t know the reason/s for this dip in his form but it’s looking a longer term issue than a mere blip. IMO there’s no room for sentimentality in football & as much as he’s saved us in the past he needs to be made aware that his position isn’t guaranteed & to buck his ideas up & if he doesn’t then he should be dropped – any other player in any other position would have been by now IMOAnyway, on to the second half & that was as good as the 1st half was bad. I’m hoping that the first half was just a case of the team settling in to a slightly different system with a couple of players needing to find their feet on their debuts (& both of em were superb in the 2nd half from what I saw.
As someone else has said maybe that 2nd half will act as the spur for them team to push on for the rest of the seasonAs for the ref, I thought he did well in the main. I think the challenge on Espinoza prior to their 2nd goal was a foul – as soft as it would have been at the end of the day, Espinoza had released the ball & the defender came through & trod/stamped on his foot. He’d given a foul in the 1st half when Maloney had been taken out after he’d released the ball & I don’t see the difference.
Other than that he did okay & he didn’t allow himself to be swayed by teh stoke manager, players or supporters when they started to whinge about Latics fouls & some of our men taking a dive
I agree completely about Crouch though – the only way he is capable of winning a header is by putting his hands on the shoulder of his marker & using em as leverage when he jumps. He does it every time & seems to get away with it about 90% of the time. The only time I’ve seen him get picked up on it almost all the time is when he’s played in european club competitions & slightly less so at international levelI read last night that he has left his club in Turkey, due to their financial problems and they have agreed to release him after not paying him for 2 months.
He’s 29 and available on a FREE.
Now, I know the problems we had with him last time, but if we could just get his head right and offer him the opportunity to come and play for a contract/put himself in the shop window, it’s a no brainer for me. Fitness pending, of course, as he has had a few problems since being with us.
I just think if we could get him firing on all cylinders we could have a cracking striker on our hands. And for free.
Perhaps offer him a contract til the end of season? He has stated his desire to come back to England, and as we seem to look for freebies and cheap options, I think he would be worth a punt.
Have a look at his twitter account he loves wigan and would come back,i heard that the problem was spud yead and he had a big fall out with him long before he went AWOL[/quote]
Didn’t Bobby get asked about bringing him back some time ago (possibly his 1st season back with Latics) at a fans forum or at one of these fanzine meets he used to do?? If I remember rightly his response was that he wasn’t the type of person that he wanted around Wigan Athletic & that, whilst he had never met him, from talking to those that had nobody (from the players to the tea lady) had a good word to say about him
I am prepared to accept that I may have completely made that up but it popped up from somewhere deep in my memory bank when I read aceface’s post
I’m really surprised by this one to be honest. From things that both Bobby & Scharner said at the time, I got the impression that the 2 of em didn’t part that amicably.
Scharner was never backward in coming forward to tell the world that Bobby wasn’t using him correctly & I’m pretty sure that even Roberto “I never criticise my players in public” Martinez grumbled about his attitude not being right.
I’m also surprised that Scharner wants to come back & that Hamburg are willing to let him as I was under the impression that he was doing okay at Hamburg
Maybe I’m wrong on both countsThat said, I’d have him back as a centre half in an instant
Parrots.No – sorry, my pet hate is other teams being called by some witty pun that has seen much better days:
Wet Spam, Sjoke, Nob End, Robberpool, Spuds, Manure, Man Shitty, Chelski, and so on, including Worriers.
Really annoys me.
Thank you for listening.
You missed out my personal favourite:
Crwho? :P
