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what do we lose if Boselli replaces him, especially in a system more suited to his particular merits?
I’m intrigued as to why people think Boselli is more suited to Latics 3-2-2-2-1 system (it isn’t 3 up front!! ;) )
From what I know & have been told about Boselli he is a penalty area striker whose contribution to the team outside of his ability to take chances (regardless of a few of the sitters he missed for Latics) is minimal.
If that’s the case then why is he going to be more suited to a system that requires him to drop deep, pull out wide etc.. in pretty much the same way that the lone striker role has always been played under Martinez? (even if you feel Bobby plays with 3 up front the other 2 are not conventional strikers)
I’m not saying that he would or wouldn’t be a success if he came back just that I don’t see the role that he would be asked to play in has changed much in the time that he’s been away so why are many now saying he would be more suited to this sytem other than that the new formation is more successful & has led to more goals throughout the team? Something which in my opinion has come because the players playing in it are more suited to those rolesUnfortunately Tyldesley, Bruce’s focus was purely on the first team and the youth set up did suffer under him. I know of kids who left Wigan disillusioned during the Bruce era, only to be welcomed at other north west clubs.Yes, he may have made those comments regarding the young Polish lads, but what else was he supposed to say when a mic is thrust under his nose?
As it transpires, they weren’t actually the future of Wigan, nor even Derby County or Reading as far as Cywka goes – which make you wonder if Bruce actually knew anything about either player.
It is probably understandable as Bruce didn’t see a long term future at Wigan and therefore was unlikely to focus on anything that would distract from the first team.
I’m not saying that the youth set up didn’t suffer under Bruce. The point I was trying to make was that it has suffered under every manager since Whelan took over – not one manager from Deehan, Mathias, Rioch, Jewell, Hutchings & Bruce has put much focus on it.
How many players have progressed through the ranks in that time to become regulars? Off the top of my head, Leighton Baines. That’s 1 in 17 years. It may well have got worse under Steve Bruce, but it hasn’t been much kop for a long time – and that was the point I was trying to make. the poster I replied to seemed to be saying the poor youth set up was all Bruce’s fault & it wasn’t/isn’t. he was merely the last in a long line of managers who have neglected it. A stance I think was understandably given that the brief from above was to get results & progression as quickly as possible
A latics mate of mine who was a neighbour of the family of a Latics youth player (who made a couple of brief appearances) under Jewell didn’t have many complimentary things to say about Latics youth set up then either
With regards to Bruce’s comments about the Polish lads, I took them at the time (& in hindsight still think this) as Bruce making a thinly veiled statement that the way Latics recruited was going to change & it has. I didn’t specifically think he was referring to how great those 2 players wereIts nothing new though
Leeds United did it under Don Revie, Bolton did it under Allardyce (when they dropped their black shorts), Latics haven’t always played in blue & white, Spurs used to play in all purple, Juventus used to play in pink, Arsenal haven’t always played in red & white, United haven’t always played in red
As a Latics fan I’d always prefer us to play in blue & white but if a big wedge of cash came with a change of kit to red & white hoops I’d reluctantly accept it!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo:
Whilst I’m on garswood – did you ever get the opportunity to look for those isidro Diaz goals against Carlisle back in 1997?
calumn mcmanaman and noah dicko should feature more this season, and they have rakish bingham who has just signed pro forms. maybe lee nicholls will get on the bench now pollitt has retired?we sufferd in the steve bruce era regarding the youth set up, as he was only interested in the first team.
i think that it’s unfair to blame Steve Bruce for Latics poor youth set up.
It’s been a problem since Dave Whelan took over back in what 1995? If you’re a manager with a chairman who wants swift & rapid progression up the football league you’re gonna pump most of your resources into the first team coz you haven’t got the time to bring through youth coz he’ll kick you out of the door if the first team isn’t performing
I remember an interview Paul Jewell gave where he said that he told Whelan at his interview that he wasn’t bothered about the youth set up & his sole focus was the first team squad (for the above reasons).
Whelan’s change in focus from january 2009 onwards is the reason why this has now changed – Steve Bruce himself said (when the 2 Polish lads had signed professional deals) that youngsters like these were the future of Wigan Athletic.Also Callum McManaman was brought into the club whilst Steve Bruce was in charge if I’m not mistaken
I sit quite close to the dug outs and have often heard Martinez and Jones screaming at Momo to get back or pick up a player.To be honest I’m surprised you could hear em over me yelling at the lazy fecker ;)
Give me a 90 minute, solid (if unspectacular) grafter like McArthur over a 10 minute here, 10 minute there, when he can be bothered type player like Diame
If Diame had McArthur’s application you’d have one hell of a player but then again he’d have never been at Latics if he was.
Reminds me alot in terms of the “bags of talent/low on application” of Simon Haworth1) I’m looking forward to it in so much as its 3 weeks of footbal to keep us ticking over until pre-season starts
2) i was cautiously optimistic that Hodgson would do a relatively decent job as he seems to ge the best out of teams when little is expected of them. However his squad selection has been completely uninspiring & when you here Lampard has picked up an injury so he’s called Jordan Henderson up as stand-by that says it all reallyThanks for your time Latics, and good luck and all the best for next season. Once again, I’m hoping you beat the drop. :)As Paul Jewell once said to david O’Leary back in 2005 – I hope you do too!!
Back to Diame, I’d kind of echo what Garswood said but I’ll add that at times he can be unplayable & at times looked head & shoulders above anything else out on the pitch
However he appears to be as lazy as he is talented. If he goes forward in support of an attack don’t expect him to get back into position for at least 5 minutes as he seems to amble back without a care in the world. Really frustrating coz he could be a top player but he just doesn’t seem to have the motivation.
Also, as Garswood has pointed out, his fitness appears to be a problem & in all my time of watching football I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone so visually hit a brick wall, fitness wise, as him.
In the 3 years he’s been at Latics he has always been in & out of the side – started off well in his first season, faded badly & got dropped, didn’t start off too well in his second season, got dropped & then came back with a bang at the back end of the season & this season just gone he was one of our better players (although that wouldn’t have been hard) before Xmas, went to the ACN & never started another game.
So in effect if Sunderland do sign him, you’ll be getting a player who has never been a regular in the whole time that he’s been at LaticsI don’t believe for one minute that United pulled out of a deal last week due to his heart condition (as was reported down here), nor that Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, valencia, Malaga & a few others who he & his agent claims have enquired about him have actually shown any interest in him coz I don’t think he’s anywhere near good enough – Martin O’Neill however may well be able to sort out his lazy streak coz if he can then you will have a decent signing
One other thing, I’ve not been up to Sunderland since our Championship days but I hope your women are better looking than they are down here coz he very publicly stated that he thought they were a bit minging in Wigan :pinch:
NB – Please note that by stating Diame’s views on the good ladies of this town I am by no means saying that I agree with them!! :woohoo:
call me Sherlock Holmes but it seems very convenient to me that the “Liverpool going back for Rodgers” & “Whelan has persuaded Bobby to stay” have both broke in the papers on the morning of the day that they’re due to meet again.
Surely neither story could be the creation of either side (FSG & Bobby) in a last ditch attempt to get the other side to budge over the sticking points in order to avoid missing out.
I should be a detective meI can’t understand in these end of contract malarkeys, why the player and club can’t agree say another say 3 year contract, under the proviso that the player is allowed to leave when club
come knocking. A sort of thank-you from the player to the club for dragging them out of obscurity and giving them an opportunity of going on show in the prem league.
If all these clubs that are being banded about are interested in Diame, I’m sure we could have squoze £4-£5m out them. That way the player gets what he wants and club at least recoup some brass back. goodpostLike Valencia did signed a new contract then went to United for millions which helped the club. Sorry jr the players are only interested in themselves and the big wage and signing on fee they’ll get because no fee is involved.[/quote]
As far as I’m aware, Valencia didn’t sign a new contract in January 2009. He was offered the chance to go after Real Madrid made an offer & he turned it down (my understanding being that United had told him to wait till the summer & he wanted to go there). He’d only signed a 3yr contract in January 2008 & so didn’t need to sign a new one a year later to ensure Latics got a fee for him. If his contract had only had 6 months left to run I’m pretty certain that he wouldn’t have signed a new one just to ensure Latics got a fee for him.
Does anybody really blame a footballer for preferring to join a club for nothing when 1) they can decide where they go as opposed to only being able to go to a club that their current club accepts a bid from & 2) They will get more money in wages & signing on fees as their new club hasn’t had to fork out money just to be able to sign them?The same person has also said they have it on good authority that Martinez will be turning the Liverpool job down over the course of the next few days.I read the very same thing this morning in an online Daily Mirror article – hopefully the link works
As was stated by a Tics mon on the Villa message board big support does not equal big club. If that was the case the 2 Sheffield clubs would not have been in League 1 which is what makes our League great.
there are four big clubs in the premier league, they are man utd liverpool spurs and arsenal, the rest who think they are, are just clubs with big support.[/quote]
Fek me Chelsea have just won the champs League and can’t make the big club list. :woohoo:[/quote]
by saying big clubs i mean clubs who have been playing at at the top level for most of their history, while i remember chelsea only being a run of the mill second division side in the eighties and only becoming a force when the russian mon came.[/quote]
To be fair, Chelsea were reaching & winning the FA Cup final, ditto for the league cup & same goes for the European Cup Winners Cup, Super Cup & Charity Shield in the years before “the russian mon” came
As for what Whelan said I don;t know why they’ve got their knickers in a twist. He didn’t say they weren’t “big clubs” just that he knows if Bobby was to leave Wigan he thinks it would be for “bigger” clubs than them
Nothing lost of Moreno & Stojkovic??? So they played for free did they?? At the end of the day both were brought in with a view to a permanent signing & both were garbage so still “bad signings”
Lopez & Sammon have both been with Latics virtually as long as De Ridder & Kapo were before Bobby tried to offload them so you can’t write 2 of those off because it fits your argument & say that 2 others may still come good coz it does likewise. Going by that logic De Ridder & Kapo may well have come good too if they’d been given long enough. The fact of the matter is that neither have looked good enough as yet.
So thanks but I’ll keep Lopez & Sammon in there along with Moreno & Stojkovic. Stick Van Aanholt in there too. Ronnie Stam (the bloke who signed him won’t play him unless he’s desparate), Jason Scotland, Steve Gohouri, Antonio Amaya, Scott Sinclair, Jordi Gomez (produced it in flashes but not consistantly, Mauro Boselli
Now don’t get me wrong he’s signed some bloody good uns too & he’s signed some players who had shaky starts & have come good but you highlight bruces bad signings & ignore his good uns whilst denying Bobby makes many bad signings. Just as Bruce wasted Latics budget on bad players, so has Martinez – denying that to be frank renders your argument impotentOh yeah before I got sidetracked by Ye Olde Bent nose debate I came on to make a relevant point to the topic at hand!
I know it has not worked for us previously but would it be worth giving Jones the nod should Martinez depart for pastures new?
On the back of a good season surely if he maintains the same principals we would be okay?…
Would Jones not go with him?
Here are five names to add to the debate.
Paolo Di Canio
Gus Poyet
Nick Barmby
Stuart McCall (Motherwell)
Peter Houston (Dundee Utd)Di Canio certainly knows how to play football, and Poyet has done brilliantly at Brighton.
Barmby is out of work but was doing a good job at Hull with no money to spend.
The two SPL manager have done well on limited budgets and work well with young players.
Don’t know if any of them would be any good, would be interested in a move to Wigan, or even if there’s going to be a managerial position available at Wigan – but I thought I’d throw some names into the ring other than the usual Holloway, Curbishley, Bruce, Jewell etc.[/quote]
I’m not sure Jones would go with him & its one of the only reasons I could see Bobby turning down the job. From what i can gather the owners are quite keen to bring their own people in as director of football (& we saw what happened to the one Bobby didn’t bring in himself at Latics) & a few other vital posts. They’ve also turned down Steve Clarkes resignation & I assume they want him as the new blokes assistant. It seems to be a case of we want X as manager but he will work with what we give him.
To discuss the others, haven’t McCall & Houston flopped in England previously. I work with a Hull fan who says not many are sad to see him go
Gus Poyet is an interesting one as he was doing well at Leeds too but I wouldn’t attend Latics out of principle if that self-confessed fascist & fascist saluting moron Di canio was ever to darken our doors with his presence – maybe that’s a point in his favour!!! ;)Let me throw my pennys worth in on the Bruce V Whelan.Fair play Whelan sets the budgets for the manager i.e cuts or increases expenditure.
But he does this because he has to not out of choice!
The same cannot be said for Bruce while he used that budget to sign the likes of Krappo , De Riddled, Won Chee No & Kingston Town while also having the advantage of seeing these mongs in action previously (maybe a little harsh on the Korean).
It has been for the past 3 seasons Martinez’s aim to get the likes of this crap off the books with their mega wages including a certain keeper who cant sit on a bench without getting fecking injured!
How is that Whelan’s fault? If the managers had of used the funds they had been given wisely we would of been in a better situation on their departure without the need to count our copper jar!
Undoutedly Bruce signed some whoppers but then again (as pointed out by the lightside at times in defence of Bobby), so does every manager – within his budget, Bobby has brought in Scotland, Boselli, Moreno, Thomas, Stojkovic, Sammon (I think the lad has some potential but I know he aint everybody’s cup of tea), that god awful defender who came with Diame, Lopez & that is just off the top of my head.
Admittedly not all are at the cost level of Bruce’s signings but if Bobby had used the funds he’s been given wisely then we’d be in a better position on their departure without the need to count our copper jar.
Also, when saying that Bruce should have spent his money wisely, even with the duffers you mentioned he had Latics challenging for Europe & I’ve no doubt would have got the club to its highest ever league finish. Again operating within the budget given to him
I don’t understand your comment that Whelan sets a budget coz “he has to & not out of choice” – every club operates on a budget from United, Chelsea & City to Barnet & Northampton. No club (not even those backed by oil billionaires) can spend an endless amount of cash no matter what it might look like. Just some clubs budgets are bigger than others. bruce operated under the budget given to him by Whelan & then that budget was altered downwards as Whelan had every right to do. If Bobby had been manager back in bruce’s reign then he would have spent just as much (to a varying degree of success no doubt), he spends less now because he has less to spend & that aint the fault of previous managers.
You also mention a keeper who can’t sit on a bench without getting injured. Maybe, but 1) he wasn’t signed by Bruce, 2) that keepers appearance record under Bruce was superb because Bruce was able to manage his training schedule & 3) that keepers performances under Steve Bruce were superb too – it was only under Bobby that both his performances & injury record suffered
