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“youre post here weve stopped up because of the dross below us, no my friend weve stopped up because weve got more points than the teams below us”
I don’t see your point with that statement. If Atherton Colls, Atherton LR & Leigh Genesis were promoted to the top flight with their current squads etc.. then Latics & no doubt everybody else would stay up coz a) There were 3 teams really poor teams in the division & b) coz those 3 teams got fewer points than everybody else
As such filmoss’s statement is no less true than yours (IMO)
From my own personal point of view I think this season has been terrible. Yes we achieved Dave Whelan’s only goal of staying up but we’ve had to endure some horrendous football, horrendous performances, horrendous tactics, horrendous subsititution decisions. In between all that we’ve had 3 great performances against Villa, Chelsea & Liverpool & 10 awesome minutes against Arsenal.
You may well think that 10 minutes of great football on Sunday makes up for 2870 minutes of crap but I don’t and, personally, I don’t think that anyone shouldI also note that you mention the deadwood brought in by Bruce & other managers but neglect to mention the deadwood Martinez himself has brought in & now needs to get rid of
As someone who’s followed us home & away for 23 years (admittedly far less now than I used to) no-one is more pleased than me that we look to be heading for a 6th straight season in the top flight but Martinez has a hell of alot to prove next season to show that he’s learned from his many, many mistakes and I for one have seen very little this season that suggests to me that a) he will learn & b) that he is the right long term manager for this club
“My point is they obviously never watch our games,hence some of the stupid comments”
And my point was that, in relation to Merson’s “they haven’t got good enough players to try to out-football teams” comment was that he was saying no more or less than many Latics fans (who do watch our games) have been saying all season – and with plenty of justification in my opinion
I didn’t see SKY’s coverage on Sunday (well I’ve seen the highlights but not their full game coverage) so aint gonna comment on what Merson said on Sunday
However I have heard him say similar things on the score updates/final score thing they have on on match days. Similar in that we can’t try & out football teams because we don’t have the personnel to do it
In that respect he’s only saying what countless people on here (me included) have said all season & (as odd as it may sound considering we’ve beaten Arsenal, Chelsea & Villa) he’s absolutely right IMO“Yes, I agree, they’ll be buzzing, let them at West Ham”
They’ve been “buzzing” this season after victories against Villa, Chelsea & Liverpool and have followed those 3 games up with a loss to Wolves, a loss to Hull & a loss to Bolton respectively.
I spot a bit of a pattern there!!! If I was to gamble on a win, loss or draw on this weekend’s game I know where my money would be
Alex – how does the saying go?
That’s it , “there are lies, damn lies & statistics”that’s coz they can be used to show pretty much anything you want them too. For a start the stats showed that Latics played really well on Tuesday when in reality it was feckin awful
I know what I saw yesterday. I saw a team (Arsenal) in complete control of that game for 79 minutes without even getting out of second gear. Arsenal weren’t great, but they didn’t need to be. They’d also long since taken their foot off the gas before a great move saw us pull a goal back & then a combination of being unable to step back up a gear & Latics finally getting the bit between their teeth led to an amazing last 11 minutes that will live long in the memory
“just for your information, bringing Moses on and changing the formation/moving players around is all down to the manager!” – By that same token you could also argue the fact we were 2-0 down was also down to the manager due to his initial team selection. We looked far more threatening when he brought Moses on so why are you not criticising him for that???? Likewise you could argue Latics have been in a relegation battle for most of the season coz of the manager
You can’t have it both ways“If we didn’t get anything out of the game it would have been unfair BUT I wouldn’t have been dissapointed with the overall performance”
I missed the first 10 minutes but I thought from then until the 79th minute Latics were awful & it showed everything that had been wrong with our season – no pace, no urgency, no movement off the ball, defenders & midfielders leaving players for somebody else to pick up, the ease with which Arsenal’s goals were scored etc.. In fact it got that easy for Arsenal that from 60 minutes it the game seemed like a pre-season run out – As such I’m quite surprised that the stats show things even in possession & us up on shots etc..
The first goal came from our best move of the match, Latics tails got up, Arsenal had taken their foot of the gas & found it hard to step it back up a gear & the rest is history
Like Griff though, regardless of stats, I wouldn’t say yesterday’s game were an example of Bobby outclassing Wenger at all. As the guy on Sky said “for 80 minutes Latics had looked less than threatening”. Also I wouldn’t say keeping the same formation, moving our biggest goal threat up front & putting a winger on the wing was inspired – just common sense
Anyway I’m gonna shut up coz I sound like a party pooper
Its my recollection that Scharner was signed as a centre half who could, if needed play the odd game elsewhere too – certainly Steve Bruce said (when he switched him back to centre half 2 games after he took over) said that when he was poised to sign him for Birmingham (before Jewell stepped in) he was playing as a centre half & that’s where Bruce would have played him at Birmingham.
Regardless of that, my own opinion is that Paul Scharner is not, never has been & never will be good enough to play anywhere in the midfield of any premier league team. Yes he can in an emergency step in & may even have a good game but long term he just hasn’t got what it takes. i think he’s an excellent centre half but midfielder??? To quote some bloke I once hear in the bogs at the JJB – “never in t’memory o’mon is that bloke a premier league midfielder”
IMO its to Bobby’s discredit that he ever listened to Scharner in the first place by playing him there & he’s made that mistake worse by actually continuing to do so. He either can’t see that he isn’t good enough (& in which case you have to question his judgement) or he’s too afraid to go against where Scharner wants to play him (& in which case you have to question his managerial abilities)
On top of that Scharner’s behaviour & public outbursts have been nowt short of disgraceful – he’s come out once saying where the manager should play him, he’s publicly criticised his colleagues on several occasions & now he’s (allegedly) come to blows with one team mate at half time on Wednesday & then (again allegedly) stormed off home before the final whistle.
After each of these occasions all Martinez appears to have done is say he has no problem with it coz it shows he has passion. I even read a quote today from him regarding Wednesday saying that he (Scharner) had been upset & that he (Bobby) hoped it could be sorted out ahead of Sunday’s game – Sorry but if the mon can’t handle being subbed when he’s having a stinker & then a younger team mate standing up to him without stomping off in a sulk then he should be fined, dropped & made to publicly apologise, just like the bloke who did somet similar for Burnley the other week btu what it appears is happening is that Martinez is tryna placate him.You only have to look at his website to see how self-absorbed Paul Scharner is (anyone for the Paul Scharner Football Party this summer wheer we can all show our commitment to his vision of himself??) but I’ve never really cared as long as his contribution to the team has been good enough but when he’s played as poorly as he has this season, yet he still feels fit to criticise others when his own performances lack any sort of desire or commitment then he can go swing for all I care.
Like SwindonLatic says we have other players who can play in that role (Moses for one, McCarthy could, Watson etc..) & if he doesn’t wanna play for Latics or under Bobby any more than he can feck off
I wasn’t one of the ones slating him before I’d seen him play but I did question the wisdom of signing players in the transfer window who weren’t ready for premier league football without a significant bedding in time – Moses, Moreno & Gohouri
Now admittedly he was relatively impressive (as opposed to most of the others) last night but if we needed another centre half (on top of Bramble, Scharner, Boyce, Caldwell & Amaya) I would have preferred to see one brought in (like Caldwell) who could hit the ground running.
As it was we’ll have had 1 subs appearance & 2 starts from him this season & (for this season at least) that’s a bit of a wasted signing for someone who’ll have been here the best part of 5 months“As one of those who has consistently backed Martinez (not necessarily the players, mind) I find it hard to defend either the selections and tactics last night”
Welcome to the dark side :twisted:
“The performance on a whole last night wasn’t as bad as people make out. If we had drawn 0-0 with a big 4 team playing like we did last night people would have been raving on here saying we were fantastic”
Just a couple of things about this particular point you made:
1) We weren’t playing a top 4 side – that’s the whole point. We were playing an already relegated team that had been decimated by injuries & financial constraints. At home. They’re a team who have conceded nigh on 2 goals a game on average & in 2 games against em we haven’t scored once including last night against such a poor scratch side with our full strength squad. Yes if we’d been playing Man Utd’s full strength side & had as much possession & got a 0-0 draw We’d have all been pleased but we didn’t. We played Portsmouth’s B team
2) Despite that all we really had to show for 68% of the possession against a bunch of reserve & youth team players was a few long range shots on target & one from closer in from Scotland. The performance was awful & looked devoid of pace, power, commitment, passion & countless things necessary for a half decent sideThat said, I agree with you about Scotland as mistakes he makes seem to get slaughtered by the crowd & on here but mistakes by others get glossed over. Reminds me of the crowd favourite McCulloch v crowd boo boy Teale in our Championship days.
That said, I can understand people’s frustration coz he quite clearly isn’t good enough. You could tell that from the moment he first stepped out for us & no amount of commitment is gonna change that. I think people are venting their frustrarion at Bobby’s poor signings (& he was a flagship one) coz it feels wrong to em to turn on a latics playing legendWith regards to Moses, he may well nto be ready but I think the point I made when we signed him still applies. Bobby signed him and said pretty much straight away that he wouldn’t be ready for a while. Now bearing in mind that we have been in a relegation battle pretty much all season to sign someone knowing they aint gonna be ready to start until next season (without bringing in a temporary signing alongside him to play in his position) was an ill thought out & almost naive move – i.e. what we had wasn’t working that well so to change it he brings somebody in who he isn’t expecting to start or take anybody’s place so in effect our starting XI isn’t enhanced
Whilst I expect to see at least one of those players you mentioned (& in all likelihood both) go during the close season, I very much doubt that particular story is true
Unless Arsene Wenger has taken leave of his senses
Mind you he did pay £10mill for Franny Jeffers!!!
i saw a bit of coronation street the other night & it appears that Rosie Webster was conned by the fella she was dating into thinking that he was a professional footballer when in reality he flipped burgers outside the ground on match days
i think the same may well have happened in real life!!
“a disgraceful and childish show of disrespect to one of our longest serving players”
I lost count of the number of times I saw Scharner cock something up or give away possession & just stand there whilst waiting for someone else (further away) to try & win back possession.
That lack of effort & commitment is what I find to be disrespectful & disagraceful. How else do you expect people to show their displeasure with his performance other than what they did
The moment really started to suspect Bobby wasn’t the right man for the job was the moment he picked Scharner in an attacking midfield role 2 days after a certain Mr Scharner told the press that that was where he should be playing
Pish weak management in my book
Jewell played him in midfield most of the 06/07 season & wound up in a relegation scrap, Hutchings played him there & got sacked after 14 games. Bruce told him that if he wanted a place in his team he’d be playing at centre half & we progressed. Bobby has switched him back there & we’ve been awful again – Can anyone see the link there
Fans have a right as paying customers to express their opinion as to the inept shit we have been force fed this season
Mindlessly clapping like a sheep for a manager who has made the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over again this season will achieve absolutely jack sheet either other than convince the manager that there are still some people out there who believe what he is doing is right
