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Just to chuck my twopenneth in:
Waghorn – he was a strange one. I never really knew what his best position was when he was at Latics. Not quick enough to be played out wide & didn’t seem to have enough movement or nouse to be a striker (& certainly not the right type to play up front on his todd). But he used to impress me when he came on as sub & per minutes on the pitch, his scoring record was good. That said whilst he impressed me when he came on as a sub, whenever he seemed to start a game I thought he disappointed. I always thought he was a very strange signing to be honest – at a time when the club was still hoping to go straight back up I never felt it made sense to get him permanently as there was no way in a million years that he is good enough for the top flight. It just seemed to be a signing that lacked ambition or was an acceptance that we wouldn’t get promoted & then on top of that Rosler never seemed to want to play him anyway but then that seemed to be par for the course with pretty much everyone he brought in
Tavernier – only getting to the odd game I didn’t see a great deal of him but the comments I got from other Latics fans weren’t particularly glowing with one contractor I know through work describing him as an absolute liability & incapable of defending. His last 2 loan periods look impressive on paper to a club in League One but looking at the period at Bristol City, he only started in 9 games out of the 22 Bristol City played from his arrival until the end of the season. Yes he contributed to their promotion every time he was called upon but when you don’t play any part whatsoever in 10 of 22 games its hardly integral or a guarantee that he’d have been a successful starter at Latics this season.
If I’m honest, I’d have liked to have seen both of them at this level to see how they’d have done for us as I thought they’d have done okay. That said I didn’t particularly shed any tears when they were sacrificed either coz the manager didn’t rate them or because it was felt their departure could fund replacements that would make the squad as a whole stronger (rightly or wrongly – only time will tell).
However the fact that both seem to be doing well at Rangers is no indication of how well they’d have done at Latics this term. Rangers & Hibs could probably both give most teams in this division a game (& beat them) but you can’t escape the fact that the rest of the division is a very poor standard. That’s not criticising those teams but when they only pull in 900-2000 crowds & where sponsorship & TV deals bring them buttons in comparison to England they will only be able to get lower quality players on a par with conference/lower league 2Only been the once. Stayed at a Latics mates in London & got the train out there.
It took absolutely yonks & the train carriages were like something out of a 1940’s period drama.
Having had a few drinks before & after the game I’d concur with the poster who said what a crud heap it is (or it certainly was on my visit which must have been 10-15 years ago – possibly a season or 2 after that fan had been killed there after some fighting between Gillingham & whoever they were playing)
Their description of it as a rough northern town plonked on the medway is pretty much how I described it at the time – I also seem to remember it being a bit of a trek from the train station & centre of town through some ropey, winding terraced streets
Déjà vu, that’s what that is! How many more strikers can we ruin before some of our fans stop coming back with feeble excuses as to their ineffectiveness for us? How many is that now that have come here with a reputation only to have their confidence stripped and become a shadow of their former self? Then leave and fairly quickly get back their mojo and start banging em in again! It’s no coincidence!Whilst I see your general point, I hardly think it applies to Leon Clarke – bar a prolific spell over the course of a calendar year at Coventry his only reputation was as a plodding journeyman of a striker who’s been at 19 different clubs in 12 years & who if a club signs permanently, is usually shipped out on loan relatively soon afterwards.
Also I hardly think that 4 goals at the start of a season is an indicator that he’s now got his mojo back & is gonna continue banging them in for the rest of the seasonbut he couldn’t tell whether he tried to play the ball
Agree with most of what you say except that.
If they couldn’t see Coutinho lunge in and try to connect with the ball then neither of them should be officiating.
I’d agree if that was the view that they had but it wasnt. Far from it
If you pause the clip at the moment Courinho tries to kick the ball as I said earlier if the liner is where he should be then it’s highly likely his view of it is blocked by Benteke & I think by one other.
The ref is looking at it from behind so not only could Coutinho’s leg be obscured by his body but there are also 5 other players in his line of vision
It’s far easier than you think at pitch level to have your view of something obscured that looks blatant from the stands or on TV.
That said, the ref’s movement when the ball was played in should have been better & then his view may not have been obscuredI don’t think you can criticise Coyle, Rosler or McKay for not encouraging attacking football.The other three though, were much more direct.
I think you may be confusing poor quality with boring tactics.
Personally I prefer the Martinez / Caldwell way, but that’s my personal preference.
I’d disagree about MacKay coz I think his style of play was very defensive & boring. His sole tactic seemed to be built around surrendering play up till just outside the box & then hoping to hit on the break – the problem being that our defence & midfield weren’t up to the task of keeping other teams from scoring & our attack didn’t have enough pace or strength to hit teams on the break
this style may have been due to the players at his disposal but a mate of mine has a friend who is a Cardiff fan who said when Whelan appointed MacKay that (whilst successful) hi style of play was awful to watchTo be fair, the referee got it absolutely spot on to disallow Bournemouth’s goal – the Bournemouth player was pulling back on the Liverpool player’s shirt & then pushed him down to get himself leverage to win the ball. If you watch the footage you can suddenly see the Liverpool player descend & the Bournemouth player then win the header pretty much exactly where the Liverpool player’s head had been.
For the offside, the assistant got it wrong but as a ref myself I’m dreading having to interpret that new guidance when I’m on the line. Its not a case of just playing at the ball but that play has to impact on an opponent. When you’re looking at that from pitch level from the touchline whilst you can see someone stood in an offside position because of your viewing perspective from that level, you can’t always tell whether the players actions have interfered with an opponent or impacted on them. I’ve done it myself in previous seasons when, after a goal, I’ve flagged to tell the ref that their was a player in an offside position but I’ve no idea whether they were interfering with play & leave it to them to decide (And I’ve been criticised by an assessor for drawing attention to something that no-one had appealed for)
With the one last night, whilst it’s clear as day from the slightly elevated TV angle, if that assistant is where he should have been (starting off level with Bournemouth’s second last man then moving with the ball towards the goal line) then there’s every chance that at the moment Coutinho plays that ball that his view of that action is blocked by Benteke & at least one other Liverpool player.
So yeah the goal shouldn’t have stood but in this instance it’s not as easy as saying it was big club biasAs they’re mic’d up the assistant may well have told the ref Coutinho was offside but he couldn’t tell whether he tried to play the ball & that this impacted on the keeper, but the ref is looking through 5 players & in all likelihood has no idea. In those cases you are told to go with the attacking side
That new guidance is a nightmare
That might be so, however, if you take Donny’s point then there is a real risk of a player merry-go-round here at the club. If the players do not suit Caldwell’s style, or came here ‘over-rated’ etc then indeed there is (can be) a problem. You have to admit, though, that it is rather late in the window to be experimenting with other teams players. Is Caldwell behind the drag-curve? Only time will tell.Both the 2 Everton lads were brought in during pre-season – only Coulthirst has been brought in on loan since the season started.
I understand what you’re saying about if they’re “over-rated” then it can lead to a player merry go round but I think the very fact that Caldwell is starting them in games indicates that he rates them & that its likely that Latics will extend the loan deals.
If they’re brought in on another club’s recommendation & Caldwell doesn’t rate them then I’d hazard a guess that he wouldn’t pick them for games & then send em back having watched them in training. Coulthirst did train with the squad late last week & done enough to impress Caldwell to include him in his matchday squad.At least that’s what I hope happens – maybe Rosler & MacKay’s style of bringing in a player on loan, chucking em straight into the starting line up, before dropping them, never playing them again & then sending them back has put everybody off loan players here!!
And folk on here like to quote our previous managers as good back up for not giving the likes of these 2 a good chance in the team.
Quality were desperate for, gone and succeeding elsewhere. We’ve been clueless at this club for some time now when it comes to giving the right players a chance.
It’s a case of where would we be now if everyone listened to me
I do reckon you would have signed a defender when we needed them.such as a Certain John Stones,A bargin for 3 mil.When Everton may draw very good money for him.If only we had payed the asking price of Barnsley. ;)[/quote]
Martinez knew where he himself would be come the end of that season and so with hindsight it is no surprise that Stones swerved coming to Wigan and went to Everton! He didn’t play at all until the following August when Martinez was manager, you do the math! :)[/quote]
Or maybe Stones saw Everton as a bigger club, offering higher wages, and with less chance of being relegated….[/quote]Well that is obvious Jonny but Everton had no prior interest in Stones with no links between the two of them whatsoever up until that ‘Eleventh Hour’ swerve? Just seems a little odd to me, especially with the fact that Everton didn’t use him until RM got there,bar 3 appearances on the bench that didn’t result in him making his debut! I believe Martinez was something to do with Stones going to Everton![/quote]
No offence but none of us know whether Everton had any prior interest in Stones prior to the 31st January. Unless you know the inner workings of Everton’s scouting system intimately, its just (if not more so) likely that he’d been on the radar of numerous “bigger clubs” than Latics & when Latics had their bid accepted it forced the hand of Everton who may have been looking at making a move for him over the summer (or later)
It seems highly unlikely to me that Bobby went to the trouble of persuading Whelan/Jackson to part with upwards of £3mill for a lower league player without the intention of actually signing him but just so that he could speak with him & tell him to sign for Everton coz that’s where he’d be come the start of the next season anyway.
If Bobby knew he was going to Everton & wanted Everton to sign him as opposed to Latics, then the whole involvement of Latics was a completely unnecessary smokescreenIt was probably the first time in my 37 years of watching latics that i never knew any of the starting 11 bar barnett & mccann.I know what you mean. About 5 minutes in I had to get the BBC website match page up on my phone & keep it open so that I could keep checking on who the hell was who.
I have to say as well that I was underwhelmed with Reece James – didn’t do anything wrong as such but I just think that for a rumoured £1mill transfer fee that I was expecting a bit more.
Still early days for everyone though
Forgot anotherPre match warm up and shooting at Jussi was as bad as it was in the match
I also noticed that during half time the classic stand in a circle & knock the ball about whilst someone in the middle tries to block a pass or tackle, was an absolute shambles
I used to coach kids at a primary school who could do that better!!On the match, I though that there were plenty of positives & plenty of negatives, most of which have already been mentioned
I think that “a work in progress” is probably the best way to describe itWe should not be giving young lads from Everton or any other frigging club match practice. To spend a month here then piss off back to their own club leaving us the situation of having to bring in players again to gel with the team. Flores played pretty well on Tuesday to be dropped today to make way for loanees on keep fit exercise at our club. Loanees..get shut and play our youngsters who would die for that badge.In this instance though, they are not just here for a month to get fit & then go back to Everton.
They’re nowhere near Everton’s first team and if you read what Caldwell said when they arrived they were brought in on short term loans to give Latics a chance to have an extended look at them both & then decided whether to extend those loans over a longer period.
Personally I see that as a far better move than approaching Everton to see if they had anyone suitable, taking who they recommended for a season & then realising a month down the line that they weren’t suitable.
I think this way of looking at loans has come about as a result of having their fingers burnt a few times with long term loan players over the last couple of seasons.
If the 2 guys from Everton are playing from the start its coz Caldwell thinks that they’re better suited to the positions & system than others who play the same position & not merely to get them fit at the expense of permanent Latics playersSquire the lad is from Londonderry which makes him a citizean of this nation. Not sure if he has a Grandad or Uncle or a distant relative from the republic that allows him to play for them but Londonderry is as much part of this country as Bristol, Middleborough or Keswick.Footballers from Northern or Southern Ireland are able to choose which nation they want to represent at international level. They are able to switch allegiance as well as long as they haven’t played a competitive senior game for one or the other – I think McClean represented NI up to U21 level before he switched over
Sorry, disagree completely.It’s more a matter of patriotism, and as someone who is proud to be British, I found it downright disrespectful considering he has chosen to make a living in Britain.
Forget the lyrics. They were written 200 years ago and lost their relevance a long time ago.
These days the song is a representation of being British, and not a literal collective hope that God saves a miserable looking 80 year old woman so she can be victorious, happy and glorious.
In essence whatever statement he thinks he’s making, he’s actually saying ‘I hate Britain and I’m only here for the money’.
I understood and respected his stance regarding the poppy – which is a direct British military reference, but this one is a step too far.
Keeping stony silent and even bowing his head would have done rather that his grand gesture.
Like I said, how you feel about what McClean did at the weekend depends on your political standpoint or personal beliefs.
To you the national anthem is not about the lyrics & is just a representation of being British. I can’t speak for McClean but personally I can’t forget the lyrics – they’re all about deference & support of an archaic institution that has no place in modern democracy IMO. “Long to/Born to reign over us”??? No thanks, and I neither sing it nor stand to attention for it when its played at any event that I’m at so in that sense I have no problem with what he did.
Am I a patriot? No – I’m proud of who I am & part of that is being British I guess & I want England/UK to win at various sports but my loyalties lie beyond simply which piece of land I had the fortune/misfortune to be born on & whichever person I’m told has a God given right to be my head of stateI can understand your viewpoint but I can completely understand his too
Good on him I say!
Why good on him?
If he can find it within himself to play in Britain and happily accept the money given to him by his British club, the least he can do is respect their National Anthem.
The poppy issue – yes I can understand that.
This one however is disrespectful towards the fans who help pay his wages.[/quote]
Whether you’re offended by it or not really depends on your political viewpoint I guess.
Had he still been at Latics & done it before the game against Southport would I have found it disrespectful towards me as a fan? – not in the slightest. The anthem doesn’t represent me & nowhere within its lyrics does it mention us as citizens. It’s a song about an unelected head of state born into immense wealth & power and has no relevance to me whatsoever.
Personally I find the anthem itself far more disrespectful & offensive to me than what James McClean did at the weekend
