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I also remember Latics playing United at the DW on the last game of the season with United needing to win to secure the title.
Latics were playing well, should have had a penalty when Ferdinand deliberately moved his arm toward the ball to block a shot (admittedly his arm was by his side but it was still a deliberate movement) & then Paul Scholes received a caution for one of his customary shocking tackles.
A matter of minutes later he committed another probably worse challenge & got away with a warning & United eventually went on to win 2-0 & secure the league.
To be fair the media were very critical of the ref but one things that sticks in my mind was an interview on the Monday on Talksport with a former top flight ref & he was asked about the decision not to issue a second caution to Scholes. I forget who the former ref was but he said that, in isolation, the challenge was worthy of a caution BUT he agreed with the decision not to send him off as refereeing is not just about referee the incidents it is about refereeing the occasion and in light of the significance of the game it was best to leave Scholes on
To this day the comment baffles meThe question he won’t answer is who told him to lie.The lie came so quickly after the incident that I think the lie came from him in the first instance. That it was then backed up and became the official story & statements changed to suit that story does, in my opinion go much further up the chain of command
Having been to Hillsborough before the disaster in that end as part of a large following the sad thing is that even though it’s now known the ground didn’t have a safety certificate & that they’d over-calculated the capacity of the pens, the whole disaster could have been avoided by something as simple as 2 lines of coppers at either side of the entrances to the turnstile area thus controlling the flow of people to those turnstiles.
Even after that error thought there were opportunities to avoid the loss of life but the guy in charge clearly hadn’t prepared enough, missed every single one of them & then sort to deflect the blame away from his own failures and that was backed up at the highest levelsHolt may have had a chance if played with a strike partner and if played in a settled side.
The lad has been a prolific goalscorer throughout his career so why as he not at Latics??I’ve no doubt that the one up top formation that Coyle employed him in was part of the reason his Latics career never really got off the ground coz never in the memory of man was he a loan striker & even the Norwich fans who idolise him will tell you he went off the boil when they changed to that system.
However, I also feel that some part of it was that after coming from non-league one of the reasons for his success was his hunger & desire to prove himself and that part of him came to Latics as one last pay day before he finished & that hunger (in footballing terms at least) & desire had diminishedTo be fair, the Leeds fans were giving Whelan stick before his comment, he then made it & whilst there was some initial booing the majority seemed to take it as a joke & one that had been made coz they’d been giving him stick
As for the timing of his announcement, I don’t think there’s any conspiracies behind it even if the timing does seem odd as, along with the recent transfer departures, it seems to give off the impression of people jumping overboard as the good ship Latics is sinking
In reality though, Whelan has been preparing his grandson for the role for several years now & Whelan has been taking a less active role in the running of the club during that time – I read in the lead up to his ban that the club wouldn’t contest any ban as due to the fact Whelan wasn’t signatory to any transfers & many other key areas that it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to the running of the club.
In light of his reducing involvement, the controversy surrounding his appointment of Mackay & his subsequent comments when (as Standish points out) the journalists led him up the garden path & then hung him out to dry when he made the comments that they hoped (& probably knew) that he’d make have just led him to think that now is the time to officially announce he was stepping down.
If I’m honest, the timing does strike me as odd as I’m sure that it could have waited until the summer but if the club does get relegated he’d have only have been accused of jumping ship anyway instead of hanging round & leading a charge back up the leaguesSo the holding companies are set up to protect the club, are they? Does that mean that the club has representation on their boards to prevent them from acting against their interests?Club assets being held by assorted mysterious companies has been the undoing of a few clubs, most notably Saturday’s opponents Leeds, owned – or were they? – by ex-Latics director Ken Bates. What I’d like is some transparency, then we could judge Whelan’s record and the club’s long-term sustainability for ourselves.
No – holding companies are set up to protect the interests of whoever owns the holding company, which might be what you’re getting at or trying to establish.
The relationship between Wigan Athletc AFC Ltd & Wigan Athletic Holdings Ltd is probably very transparent as it will all be there in the accounts of both companies – just you probably need a better knowledge of company law & accounts than either of us (& certainly me) have.
I think I know enough though to know it that it would be quite possible for someone to buy the DW Stadium & not by LaticsThanks to both of you for trying to shed light on this.It would be interesting to know just how bad the club’s debts were when Whelan took over. Because, although large at the time, they’re probably only comparable to the “small” debt he left us with after writing off his loans.
The difference, though, being that we owned our own ground then.
I’ve loved the whole ride into the Premier League. But it’s beginning to look like one family’s reckless adventure, with all the risk loaded on the club’s side.
The debts were pretty bad prior to Whelan taking over, comparatively speaking anyway. The fact Latics owned Springfield Park was irrelevant really as although they could have sold it to pay off debts, had they done so in the Kenyon/Gage era that I experienced they’d have had nowhere to play and very little money (or ability to raise any money) to pay for a new place.
I’m sure that I remember reading in the past that Brenda Spencer said the club had so little funds in the bank that there was a period one summer where they couldn’t afford to buy paper for the fax machine (that was possibly during the 1994 close season when Swain was manager).
I’m also sure that I remember reading that, shortly before buying Latics outright, Dave Whelan had on several occasions stepped in to pay players & staff wages at the club when there wasn’t any money to do so. He did this on the encouragement of Duncan Sharpe who was also the chief arm twister in getting him to buy the club.In terms Latics nowadays they are in a far better place financially than they were back in 1995.
On top of that, holding companies like Wigan Athletic Holdings are very common place. It’s used as a way of significantly reducing a company’s exposure to the effects of going belly up. The Virgin Group is a holding company & it just means if for example Virgin Airways went belly up creditors would only be able to claim against Virgin Airways assets & not the Virgin empire as a whole.
Likewise if Latics were to go into administration, no-one could force the sale of the stadium to pay off what Latics owed.
The key is the tie in between Latics & the holding company but I wouldn’t agree with your analogy that it looks like a reckless adventure with all the risk loaded on the club’s side coz if Latics did go belly up tomorrow the person who will have lost the most (money wise at least) would be WhelanGlad to see that this thread finally gained momentum.Last night’s win at least gives us some hope.
But the fact that three directors have left and the board now consists of the PR man and a 23-year-old lad suggests that there are more questions than I would expect to see answered in the Wgan Observer.
Donny’s point is a good one. If Whelan has gifted the club its stadium, training ground and academy site then he can justifiably be said to have put real money in, and we will be an asset-rich football club.
If somehow they actually sit on the balance sheet of one of his companies, then we are susceptible to rent, mortgage and market fluctuations in perpetuity. What if those companies go bust, get taken over, or change our terms?
Maybe, as people are saying, the TV money, transfer receipts and parachute payments did all go on paying Premier League wages. If so – and the club doesn’t actually turn out to own anything – that seems reckless and short-sighted to me.
Or maybe its just as likely that those 3 directors (all close associates of Whelan) have just decided to bow out at the same time & allow fresh blood in. Not saying that is what has happened but its just as likely as it being some kind of indication that things are falling apart behind the scenes or that they’ve left coz they don’t want a 23yr old to be chairman/their boss
On ownership of the DW etc.., during the 2011/2012 financial year, all the ordinary & preferred ordinary shares of Wigan Athletic AFC Ltd were transferred to a new parent company (Wigan Athletic Holdings Ltd). Wigan Athletic Holdings own a controlling interest in the company that operates the DW Stadium (I think the council also have shares in the stadium).
I’m no company ownership expert but I guess technically that means that Wigan Athletic AFC Ltd do not own the DW. Why Whelco stopped & Wigan Athletic Holdings started & what (if anything) changed in the new relationship between Latics & Wigan Athletic Holdings (as opposed to Latics & Whelco) I have no idea.
Technically though, somebody who wanted to buy Wigan Athletic could just buy the club & not the ground and presumably somebody could also just buy the controlling interest in the company that owns the DW and not buy Latics – I thinkMeanwhile, over at Weepdale the fans add their two penneth!http://www.pne-online.net/forum/showthread.php?92554-Dave-Whelan-quits-as-Wigan-Chairman
For a club that have spent 25 of my 39 years on this earth in the bottom 2 divisions of the football league and haven’t graced the top flight for over half a century they have some front for banging on about how Latics are now “going back” to our “rightful place in the lower leagues”
Although I guess its a subject that they are all something of an expert inAs this boards resident refereeing expert!!
The first one is definitely offside. Not by much but offside nonetheless
You can’t tell from that footage for the second one – the first point at which you can see Waghorn he’s definitely in an offside position but from his body position at that point he looks like he’s run into that position as opposed to being stood still so there’s a chance he may have been offside although there’s no way of telling for sureReally ? I think you should watch the game or the at the least the TV highlights, his fairy arse jump for knockdown header challenge was to blame for the 3rd and McCann doing his strictly come prancing for the 2ndWhat???
I’d suggest that you watch the highlights again if you think Kvist was to blame for either of those goals.
For the second he slides in to prevent Wilson getting hold of the ball on the edge of the penalty area. At the time he receives the ball, McCann doesn’t have a Bournemouth player within 3 yards of him and has the opportunity to play a first time ball to either Kim or McClean. His first mistake is not doing that & he then compounds that by inexplicably trying to drag the ball back & turn back on himself. In no way shape or form was Kvist at fault for that goal – his only involvement was winning a good challenge which not only prevented Bournemouth’s top scorer getting hold of the ball but also played it out to a Latics player who had the opportunity to start a counter attack. McCann’s lack of awareness of what was going on around him both in an attacking & defending sense was where the blame liesAs for the 3rd, yes he’s beaten in the air & possibly should be stronger in that challenge but that is always hard to do when the opposition player has forward momentum whilst you’re trying to hold a more stationary position. Even after he loses that challenge Ridgewell than rushes in & gets far too close to Wilson followed by Barnett allowing himself to be too easily brushed aside once Wilson had flicked it on
Fair play to Bournemouth …. no megabucksThere’s nowt wrong with it, but Bournemouth have plenty of megabucks which is why they’ve jumped from where they were to where they are now. Their backer has the kind of wealth that allows him to buy a mansion for £5mill, demolish it & then build another in its place.
Aside from that they’ve spent money wisely and have some good players. Their movement off the ball was good and they were very professional even if some of the stuff (such as booting the ball away from the drop ball & their no. 2 running 40-50 yards to get involved in every spat or berate the ref to caution our players) wasn’t nice for us to watch.
Ultimately though for all their possession (& I believe a large chunk of that comes from what appears to be Mackay’s deliberate tactic of the midfield sitting so deep that they’re almost on top of their own defenders coz it happens every game), they scored from a really poor piece of officiating, a really poor piece of play from McCann & some schoolboy defending from Barnett. I can only really remember the sitter Wilson missed in the 2nd half & a good save from Al Habsi in the 1st (when it was 0-0) as clear cut chances. In between those poor bits of refereeing & defending I never felt that Latics were under much threat & the sense of trepidation when Bournemouth had the ball in Latics half came about coz of how poor I knew Latics defending is
They had less total shots than Latics & one more on target. What they were was clinicalI felt that when Latics injected a bit more oompf into their play & closed Bournemouth down & moved forward at pace (both at the start of the game & that period after Latics scored) they looked average, vulnerable & rattled. Their professionalism came to the fore in that latter period coz they started to break the game up very well with feigning injury, delaying tactics etc.. & it took the wind out of Latics sails coupled with the save from Ridgewell’s header & the sitter McKay or Clarke missed
To be honest, bar some decent movement off the ball I wasn’t impressed by Bournemouth at all.
At the end of the day, without 3 absolute clangers gifting them goals they didn’t threaten Latics much and in the couple of brief periods where Latics midfield got stuck in & closed them down instead of standing off & gifting them possession Bournemouth looked very shaky.
What they did have was a centre forward who only needed 3 chances to score 2 goals – unfortunately he was gifted al 3 opportunitiesYou can’t judge someone suffering from a diagnosed mental illness who has attempted to take their own life from the position of someone not suffering from that condition.
I hope no-one on here is ever in that position to be seriously contemplating taking their own life but those that do will invariably suffering from some form of mental illness (however temporary that may be) and far from doing it as a selfish act, often they are viewing it as completely the opposite. That’s no consolation to those they leave behind or those they involve in their act but those who do try it deserve the deepest sympathy & understanding
Having money, fame & adulation are no barriers against mental illness
Recent events at the DW have finally explained the real reason behind our lacklustre displays this season.
What?? And exactly what evidence are you basing this on? The fact that we managed to get a clean sheet draw away from home against a top 4 team in our first game without our “rotten core”. As there is no more evidence than that at the moment. Shame on you for such blinkered rantings.
Why is it that so many on here can’t see past the players for why we’re in so much trouble?
Trent – so unless they stay at Wigan putting in a shift they can’t win right? If she doesn’t drown she’s a witch, if she does drown at least we know she wasn’t.
And JR – really? Not like you that post. Couldn’t it be possible that the reason Maloney played so well for Scotland was because he was motivated to do so through strong management and good tactics?[/quote]
And I think that its wrong to just blame the management too.
In reality what was/is wrong is a combination of things including a poor attitude from some players, poor management & bad signings in the first place.I think its important not to underplay the role of the players though – I said to a mate just after Xmas that the way the squad was performing reminded me very much of the situation that Paul Jewell inherited when he took over. A bloated squad with many on big money wages thinking they should be playing for bigger & better clubs who had seen a conveyor belt of managers come & go in quick succession.
The way some of the squad had reacted to Coyle contributed in no small part to getting him the push & likewise with Rosler (that’s in no way meant to absolve the managers themselves of responsibility coz they both made plenty of mistakes of their own) and its inevitable that some of the players start to think that they’re the ones who count more
Couple with the psychological impact of the semi-final defeat, missing out on promotion, having to spend at least another season at a level many think they’re too good for and seeing their contracts coming to an end & looking for moves away & it creates a toxic atmosphere in the squad which can also impact on the new signings brought in.
Its seems exactly like what Jewell was faced with & it took him about 5-6 months to turn that around & he to had to fire off many of the players who, although good on paper, just didn’t seem to be putting a shift in.Admittedly its all conjecture but something wasn’t right within the squad & whilst you can blame the manager for selections, formations, signings & the rest some of what we’ve seen has just been rank bad play from players who we know are far better than that
