TyldesleyLatic

It should have read:

“Got to agree – out of that list of teams who are “worse than us” 3 of the 5 have beaten us & in those games we’ve only scored 2 and conceded 9. In fact against all 5 teams we’ve only scored 4 & 2 of those were in a game where the opposition had 10 men for 80 minutes”

The game i was referring to with 2 goals against a team that had 10 men for 80 minutes was the Wolves game

I’ll be honest & say I’ve seen absolutely nowt of Saturday’s game – live, highlights or anything

But what did make me laugh was the comment from Bobby of “We conceded 3 very cheap goals for our standards, and that is something we will work on ….. it is quite clear to me the things we need to work on … in football you cannot concede cheap goals. We just weren’t ourselves today”

I agree with Griff’s point that i don’t care what he says to SKY its what he says behind closed doors that’s important but even so, is Bobby for real with those comments???
All the goals conceded against Blackpool were cheap, 4 of em conceded against Chelsea were cheap. And even more recently both United goals were extremely cheap, both Blackburn goals conceded were cheap, the bolton goal was cheap, both Newcastle goals were … and by cheap I mean people being left unmarked to score tap ins or just plain rank defending

That’s what Latics do best, concede cheap goals so for Bobby to turn round & come out with comments like that is like someone slashing on your back & telling you its raining

Don’t see how anyone can have an issue with Kirkland going out on loan

Both his & Bobby’s excuse for his poor form at the start of the season was niggling injuries which restricted his mobility. These have now apparently been cleared up but Kirkland is short of match practice which even keepers need

This loan spell will give him just that & if he performs well also keeps up the pressure on Al Habsi to stay on his toes (& possibly cut out the errors like at Blackburn & United). If Al Habsi gets injured in a game we have a keeper on the bench who can fill in for that match.
After the game we can also recall Kirkland & we have a keeper with the benefit of some recent match experience behind him

jrfatfan

As others have pointed out Kirkland can move out on loan to any championship club until the close of play tomorrow
Also, Ali is on a loan until the end of the season. Yes Bolton have a recall clause (which its worth noting they didn’t activate whilst Jussi was injured earlier in the season) but Latics have also put a 24 hour recall clause in on the Kirkland deal so if Al Habsi goes back to Bolton, Kirkland comes back to us
Don’t think we need to get anyone in to act as back up. Pollitt is there if Al Habsi was to get injured mid-match & Kirkland can be recalled if its a longer term injury

Kirkland wants to be playing. Latics need a keeper with match practice if Al Habsi gets injured or his form suffers so its a win win situation for me

As for Kirkland himself & in response to JamesC’s post – I think Kirkland is a beltin keeper but he needs it coaching from him & in turn a keeping coach who knows how to get the best out of him.
Under Paul Jewell/Gary Walsh I thought he was iffy at times but under Steve Bruce/Nigel Spink I thought he was immense & his positon in the player of the year polls during that indicate I aint the only one who thinks that. Under Bobby & this Spanish goalkeeping coach his form has dipped again

LMB – I don’t go on any opposition message boards these days but (and I’m more than willing to be corrected) I’d be very surprised if the consensus of opinion on “all” of them after Latics play them is that we are the worst team they’ve played

For a start I’d write off all 3 carling cup games as they saw much changed sides put out & its highly unlikely we were ever going to get polished performances from players who’ve rarely played together before as a unit

On to the league just scanning at the games we’ve played I doubt Spurs fans would consider us the worst side they’ve played. Sunderland (albeit down to 10 men) were the poorer side in that game. Newcastle were the poorer side for 79 minutes of that game & beat Villa 6-0 so I doubt they’d say we were the worst side they’ve played – if they did then they’re lying. Bolton were the poorer side & have since tonked spurs & Newcastle. Liverpool were second best for most of the game. West Brom have beaten a few teams this season yet never got a look in against us for most of the match & there won’t be many sides United come up against this season who the pundits will all say had the better of the first half & who manage to restrict em to 1 goal when down to 9 men for the last half an hour

I’ve been amongst Bobby’s fiercest critics since he took over & I’m still not convinced he has what it takes nor that he’ll turn it round given time (I note from his post Man United game comments that he has shifted his timescale from his initial “Give me 3 transfer windows & I’ll give you a good team” to “In 2 years time this club will reap the benefits on the pitch of what we’re putting in place now”) BUT I will hold my hand up & say that I can see some progress:

I think they are creating more chances (its just that there’s often too few players there to get on the end of them)
we “did” concede more goals than we’ve ever done but its safe to say that he’s addressed that since the 1st 2 games of the season. Our goals conceded record since then has been 13 in 12 games. Stretched out over a season that’d be 41 goals which is comparable to anything Steve Bruce managed (we conceded 44 goals in his last season) & compared to last season’s 79 I would say that you couldn’t argue that is anything other than progress. If we’d have gone down to 9 men with an hour to go against United last season that team would have collapsed & we’d have been looking at a chelse or tottenham style drubbing
The “collapses” that were so common last season when we went behind seem to have been eradicated.
He seems to have learnt that if the scores are level or we’re behind then he needs to stretch the opposition

All the above are progress – yes he’s still too rigid in his formation, yes he waits to “stretch” the game instead of playng that way from the first whistle, yes he seems to think he’s struck to a winning formula away from home with Stam on the right wing & he’s gonna stick with it coz it worked at Spurs regardless of whether it ever works again, yes some of our build up play is painfully slow when we only really seem to present a danger to the opposition when someone gets the ball at their feet & runs at the opposition and yes the movement off the ball is too poor to allow Bobby’s slow passing game to be a success

But there has been progress – not as much as some of his more stout defenders are making out but its progress all the same

I didn’t go but from what I saw on the extended highlights i think that the only “beef” we can have with the referee is possibly not treating both sides equal with regards to challenges

I don’t think we can argue with Alcaraz’s first yellow (cynical challenge to prevent a corss being made from a dangerous position
i don’t think we can argue with his second yellow either. Yes I admit Fletcher was already going down as soon as he saw the challenge coming in (& that always gets my goat) but it was a reckless challenge that he had no chance of winning & as such was a yellow. There doesn’t need to have been contact for it to be a foul – different circumstances I know but if it had been in the penalty area, Alcaraz had lunged in, missed player & ball but the opposition player had to jump out of the way & then lost his balance then it would have been a penalty

I have strong doubts as to whether the second challenge in particular would have been given a yellow card if made by a United player but I don’t necessarily think that’s a deliberate thing – for all the will in the world if you’re a ref & a foul is made & you have 75,000 people up from their seats in uproar & then a similar challenge is made & 400 people do the same then sub-consciously you are going to be swayed. That’s why fans are often called the 12th man – if it effects that players its only natural its gonna effect the ref’s too

The red for Hugo was a red card offence every single day of the week. regardless of whether he made contact with the ball rather than the player, you cannot jump into a challenge with both feet & studs up like that – its a straight red. He certainly didn’t slide in along the floor

To be fair to Stam, all the defenders saw (possibly heard) Al Habsi coming out for the ball (or shouting to leave it) coz they all stop at tracking back at pretty much the same time
So for the first goal (IMO) the majority of the blame should be laid at the feet of Al Habsi

For the second goal, I know we were down to 9 men but for their 3ft 6 centre forward to score with a free header 10 yars out questions have to be asked of the centre halves & none of em were anywhere near the ball – that said they defended really well for the majority of the rest of the time so its really a bit of nit picking

One thing I’m starting to find puzzling is Stam’s continued use out on the right wing. It appears that Bobby thinks he hit on the magic formula away from home coz it got him a result away at Spurs so this is what he’s gonna use from now on.
Whatever else he may or may not be, he’s certainly no right winger & certainly not in the way that Bobby likes to play them (one of the forward 3 in his 4-3-3 when we’re on the ball)